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Oh? I can compile all these apps, exactly as they are on the Pixel 2, myself? I'd love to see that source. The versions in AOSP are heavily cut down on functio

Oh? I can compile all these apps, exactly as they are on the Pixel 2, myself? I'd love to see that source. The versions in AOSP are heavily cut down on functionality and barely even work. Im the days of the G1, the actual Google Talk and Google Search apps were open, the Google Books app was open too! That was the Android we bought into: one where a default install was entirely open, and living without any closed source apps was easily possible. Today, that's long gone. Play Services here, SafetyNet there, Google®™© apps in the middle.

lern_too_spel 9y ago
The Pixel 2 is not an AOSP device, just like the Galaxy 8 is not an AOSP device. Why would you think you get the source for all the third party apps? > Im the days of the G1, the actual Google Talk and Google Search apps were open, the Google Books app was open too! Those apps as they were are still open (the Google Talk app was/is actually a multiprotocol messenger), though I don't remember a Google Books in AOSP. Even better, there are now superior equivalents to all of these that are also open source.
- kuschku 9y ago
  Because the G1 was an AOSP device, and so was the Nexus One, and so was the Nexus S. I was barely in middle school when the G1 came out, I saw Android morph from the promised solution as entirely open source platform to what we have today, where the platform and base apps are all proprietary.
  - lern_too_spel 9y ago
    No, none of those were AOSP devices either. They all included Android Market and Gmail, as the most obvious examples. The platform remains entirely open. That's how Chinese people are able to use Android even though Google does not do business there. You confuse the platform with the apps and services that run on it.
    - kuschku 9y ago
      > The platform remains entirely open. That’d be an argument, if Google removed all of those APIs that were in AOSP and forced people to use their proprietary solutions. If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is an official Google diagram describing which parts of Android are open source, and which are proprietary: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/playservicesdiagram2.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/plays... That was 2013, since it’s gotten even far worse. This was 2016: https://www.googlewatchblog.de/wp-content/uploads/android-struktur.jpg https://www.googlewatchblog.de/wp-content/uploads/android-st... Since then, it’s gotten even worse. By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data, or most raw sensors, you can’t run in the background, you can’t access location (except for raw GPS, not even A-GPS) without proprietary libraries. Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries.
      - lern_too_spel 9y ago
        > If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. > If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When background notifications were first made available, they used a Google service and were never part of AOSP for that reason. Chinese phones use other push services inside the firewall. > If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is because Google now updates that library for security. If someone else updates the shared library (because you're in China, for example), you can call that version. Or you can just bundle the library in your app. > By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data. None of those existed on the G1 and are simply sensor fusion implementations on the open sensor APIs. > Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries. Yes, you can. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl You need to understand the difference between the platform and the services that Google provides on top of it.

lern_too_spel 9y ago

The Pixel 2 is not an AOSP device, just like the Galaxy 8 is not an AOSP device. Why would you think you get the source for all the third party apps? > Im the days of the G1, the actual Google Talk and Google Search apps were open, the Google Books app was open too! Those apps as they were are still open (the Google Talk app was/is actually a multiprotocol messenger), though I don't remember a Google Books in AOSP. Even better, there are now superior equivalents to all of these that are also open source.

kuschku 9y ago
Because the G1 was an AOSP device, and so was the Nexus One, and so was the Nexus S. I was barely in middle school when the G1 came out, I saw Android morph from the promised solution as entirely open source platform to what we have today, where the platform and base apps are all proprietary.
- lern_too_spel 9y ago
  No, none of those were AOSP devices either. They all included Android Market and Gmail, as the most obvious examples. The platform remains entirely open. That's how Chinese people are able to use Android even though Google does not do business there. You confuse the platform with the apps and services that run on it.
  - kuschku 9y ago
    > The platform remains entirely open. That’d be an argument, if Google removed all of those APIs that were in AOSP and forced people to use their proprietary solutions. If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is an official Google diagram describing which parts of Android are open source, and which are proprietary: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/playservicesdiagram2.png https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/plays... That was 2013, since it’s gotten even far worse. This was 2016: https://www.googlewatchblog.de/wp-content/uploads/android-struktur.jpg https://www.googlewatchblog.de/wp-content/uploads/android-st... Since then, it’s gotten even worse. By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data, or most raw sensors, you can’t run in the background, you can’t access location (except for raw GPS, not even A-GPS) without proprietary libraries. Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries.
    - lern_too_spel 9y ago
      > If you want to do WiFi Geolocation, you now need to use Google Play Services. This was always using Google's proprietary data, even in the G1 days. They split it out into Play Services, so Chinese phones using another provider would be possible. > If you want to use background notifications, you now need to use Google Play Services. Background notifications weren't even possible on the G1 when it launched. When background notifications were first made available, they used a Google service and were never part of AOSP for that reason. Chinese phones use other push services inside the firewall. > If you want to use shared library of openssl, you now need to use Google Play Services. This is because Google now updates that library for security. If someone else updates the shared library (because you're in China, for example), you can call that version. Or you can just bundle the library in your app. > By now you can’t access the stepcounter, or movement data. None of those existed on the G1 and are simply sensor fusion implementations on the open sensor APIs. > Hell, you can’t even use the latest OpenGL without proprietary libraries. Yes, you can. https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl https://developer.android.com/guide/topics/graphics/opengl You need to understand the difference between the platform and the services that Google provides on top of it.