5 ms·

I thought Project Treble was supposed to make the updating process easier from an OEM point of view. If so I wish they supported the Nexus 5X and 6P for one mor

by 3steve 8y ago

I thought Project Treble was supposed to make the updating process easier from an OEM point of view. If so I wish they supported the Nexus 5X and 6P for one more version.

ucaetano 8y ago
I don't think those phones ever had Treble.
- kuschku 8y ago
  But they should have. Ending support just one version before basically immortality for the phones is just a bad joke. Especially when the only available alternative starts at 3 times the price. $900 for the smallest Pixel in Germany, fuck that.
  - izacus 8y ago
    Treble requires SoC vendors to provide drivers with explicit support. SoCs from Nexus devices aren't supported by Qualcomm so they simply can't be upgraded.
    - kuschku 8y ago
      And yet Google managed to get Treble support on the Pixel devices over a year after release... With enough money, it was apparently possible.
      - ucaetano 8y ago
        Because the SoC is supported.
        kuschku 8y ago
        Then Google is free to give me an alternative device for development. With the emulator broken, and the Nexus 5X unsupported, I am unable to assure that my apps work on Android P, and therefore I have no idea at all if they’ll crash or not. But if they’ll crash, Google will punish me by downranking my score. A punishment for something I can’t do shit about. It’s absolute madness.
        kllrnohj 8y ago
        > With the emulator broken Except it's not? Not even remotely true anymore. Starts up instantly now even, they just showed that off. And if you're opposed to Intel HAXM you can now use Hyper-V https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2018/05/08/hyper-v-android-emulator-support/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2018/05/08/hyp...
        kuschku 8y ago
        If I type ä on my keyboard, the emulator inputs ' If I type Ctrl-B, the emulator inputs a gesture. I can’t reliably emulate certain network issues. Want me to continue? I’ve got a list of dozens of issues. The problem isn’t speed (that’s something I could live with, but on Linux with KVM it’s faster than all my real devices anyway), but that it’s literally broken.
        wilsonnb 8y ago
        I mean, you can just buy a phone that can run Android P. There are plenty of them available. It's not unreasonable to expect a developer to buy a new device after three years, in my opinion.
        kuschku 8y ago
        1.5 years. The Nexus 5X was still sold by Google 1.5 years ago. And all the alternatives are significantly more expensive. I’m building open source apps. If I put ads in my apps or track my users I’d make thousands and could buy a phone easily. But I’m trying to do the right thing, and have a monthly budget of $6 (current donation level via Patreon). If you sell me a phone with Android P for one year of my app income (aka 72€), I’d take it. I’ll even put some of my own money on top, 250€, as I paid for the Nexus 5X, I am willing to pay.
    - pjmlp 8y ago
      That is why there is this thing called legal agreements. If Google actually cared, they would impose support requirements on OEMs that wanted to play on Android playground.
      - izacus 8y ago
        And they did. It's called Project Treble.
        pjmlp 8y ago
        No they did not, that is an urban myth easily dismissed with Google's documents and related ADB podcast. OEMs are expected to push updates just like before, having a certified Treble device is meaningless, if the OEM does not care to provide OS updates.
      - HillaryBriss 8y ago
        but ... did Google really have that much leverage in those relationships, at least, early on? how authoritarian could Google be about forcing this on, say, Samsung? and if they granted Samsung an exception, what would the reaction be from other manufacturers?
        pjmlp 8y ago
        As much as they would be willing to go. Given the results of Bada and Tizen, Google would have little to worry about if Samsung ever decides to go rogue.
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    > But they should have. Well, sure, but you need to invent time travel before that.
    - deleted 8y ago
      [deleted]
- 3steve 8y ago
  I figured they received Treble last year with Oreo but looking now that's apparently not the case.
Sargos 8y ago
It does. Check out all of the non-Google phones that can install the beta -today-. No waiting. That's only possible due to Treble.

by 3steve 8y ago

I thought Project Treble was supposed to make the updating process easier from an OEM point of view. If so I wish they supported the Nexus 5X and 6P for one more version.

ucaetano 8y ago

I don't think those phones ever had Treble.

kuschku 8y ago
But they should have. Ending support just one version before basically immortality for the phones is just a bad joke. Especially when the only available alternative starts at 3 times the price. $900 for the smallest Pixel in Germany, fuck that.
- izacus 8y ago
  Treble requires SoC vendors to provide drivers with explicit support. SoCs from Nexus devices aren't supported by Qualcomm so they simply can't be upgraded.
  - kuschku 8y ago
    And yet Google managed to get Treble support on the Pixel devices over a year after release... With enough money, it was apparently possible.
    - ucaetano 8y ago
      Because the SoC is supported.
      - kuschku 8y ago
        Then Google is free to give me an alternative device for development. With the emulator broken, and the Nexus 5X unsupported, I am unable to assure that my apps work on Android P, and therefore I have no idea at all if they’ll crash or not. But if they’ll crash, Google will punish me by downranking my score. A punishment for something I can’t do shit about. It’s absolute madness.
        kllrnohj 8y ago
        > With the emulator broken Except it's not? Not even remotely true anymore. Starts up instantly now even, they just showed that off. And if you're opposed to Intel HAXM you can now use Hyper-V https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2018/05/08/hyper-v-android-emulator-support/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/visualstudio/2018/05/08/hyp...
        kuschku 8y ago
        If I type ä on my keyboard, the emulator inputs ' If I type Ctrl-B, the emulator inputs a gesture. I can’t reliably emulate certain network issues. Want me to continue? I’ve got a list of dozens of issues. The problem isn’t speed (that’s something I could live with, but on Linux with KVM it’s faster than all my real devices anyway), but that it’s literally broken.
        wilsonnb 8y ago
        I mean, you can just buy a phone that can run Android P. There are plenty of them available. It's not unreasonable to expect a developer to buy a new device after three years, in my opinion.
        kuschku 8y ago
        1.5 years. The Nexus 5X was still sold by Google 1.5 years ago. And all the alternatives are significantly more expensive. I’m building open source apps. If I put ads in my apps or track my users I’d make thousands and could buy a phone easily. But I’m trying to do the right thing, and have a monthly budget of $6 (current donation level via Patreon). If you sell me a phone with Android P for one year of my app income (aka 72€), I’d take it. I’ll even put some of my own money on top, 250€, as I paid for the Nexus 5X, I am willing to pay.
  - pjmlp 8y ago
    That is why there is this thing called legal agreements. If Google actually cared, they would impose support requirements on OEMs that wanted to play on Android playground.
    - izacus 8y ago
      And they did. It's called Project Treble.
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        No they did not, that is an urban myth easily dismissed with Google's documents and related ADB podcast. OEMs are expected to push updates just like before, having a certified Treble device is meaningless, if the OEM does not care to provide OS updates.
    - HillaryBriss 8y ago
      but ... did Google really have that much leverage in those relationships, at least, early on? how authoritarian could Google be about forcing this on, say, Samsung? and if they granted Samsung an exception, what would the reaction be from other manufacturers?
      - pjmlp 8y ago
        As much as they would be willing to go. Given the results of Bada and Tizen, Google would have little to worry about if Samsung ever decides to go rogue.
- ucaetano 8y ago
  > But they should have. Well, sure, but you need to invent time travel before that.
  - deleted 8y ago
    [deleted]
3steve 8y ago
I figured they received Treble last year with Oreo but looking now that's apparently not the case.

Sargos 8y ago

It does. Check out all of the non-Google phones that can install the beta -today-. No waiting. That's only possible due to Treble.