5 ms·

Trump withdraws from Iran nuclear agreement

21 points by m1 8y ago

runesoerensen 8y ago
Title should be "Trump withdraws U.S. from nuclear agreement" or just "U.S. withdraws from nuclear agreement". The distinction matters as this is something the U.S. (not just Trump) is doing. The rest of the world care less about who or what causes the U.S. to act this way.
rando444 8y ago
Now that North Korea is becoming more friendly, one only hopes he's not grasping at straws to create a military conflict to create a distraction from his personal issues.
- yongjik 8y ago
  Unfortunately for everyone but Trump, if he wants North Korea to be less friendly, it's not exactly hard to do so. :/
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    Scrapping the Iran deal when Iran was widely viewed as being in compliance would be a very good way to make North Korea less inclined to deal.
satokema 8y ago
Can anyone actually give me an elevator summary of what this actually means without relying on tribal language or dog-whistles? Clicking link related doesn't actually explain why any of this matters to me outside of signaling and posturing; it just sends me to a timeline of various pundits and celebrities telling me how I should feel bad and angry about this.
- AnimalMuppet 8y ago
  The US had a deal with Iran where they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons, and we would ease back on the sanctions that were hurting their economy. Trump scrapped the deal, which (I presume) means the sanctions are going back in effect. That's going to hurt Iran's economy (and, to a much lesser extent, the US economy as well). It's also going to raise international tensions. Whether it's good or bad depends on your interpretation of whether Iran was keeping their end of the deal (the spirit, the letter, or both).
  - s2g 8y ago
    Everyone except trump and Netanyahu said they were. It wasn’t just good faith, thy had to agree to access as part of the deal. This means they have much more freedom to pursue nuclear weapons research.
  - nitwit005 8y ago
    The US might put the sanctions back in place, but I doubt the rest of the world will follow. Russia and China both signed trade deals to forge closer ties after the agreement. There's no real way for the US to impose sanctions without international support, except on the finance side.
  - dragonwriter 8y ago
    > The US had a deal with Iran where they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons, and we would ease back on the sanctions that were hurting their economy. Note that we did not agree to remove direct sanctions, only secondary sanctions (sanctions on non-Iranian entities doing business with Iran.)
- runesoerensen 8y ago
  This article gives a better overview than the "live" Guardian page: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-ir... Also, Obama's take: https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155854913976749 https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155854913976749
patrickg_zill 8y ago
One chart that I saw, indicates that the amount of business with Iran that the US does, is about $200 million dollars per year. The EU combined however, did about $25 Billion in trade with Iran last year. So it is much more significant to the EU than the US.
- velobro 8y ago
  Somewhere Putin is laughing historically. This is all so easy for him
  - 0xfaded 8y ago
    Hysterical laughter of historic proportion.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  The US still has direct sanctions on Iran, which is why the US-Iran trade numbers are so low: very little is allowed. The nuclear deal only addressed the US’s secondary sanctions, which apply to the EU entities (and others) that are trading with Iran.
pasbesoin 8y ago
Macron had it about right: Domestic reasons. Also, Trump is more comfortable with as well as playing strong man. He doesn't want the U.S. to win; he wants to "win". If he could, I'm sure he'd scrap term limits, fair elections, and line up his kids for dynasty. Finally, I'll mention that China's in the process of de facto purchasing Afghanistan. Not the political quagmire, but rather dominant if not sole proprietorship over the commercial interests. This will place them at Iran's border. And what's the name of that global trade "road" Xi is building? The counterbalance there will be Russia, to the extent they can back up their military with the commensurate expenditures. Not a counter-balance that works in the U.S.'s -- nor Europe's -- favor.
LifeLiverTransp 8y ago
The irony beeing that iran, culturally is much closer to the west then all those "natural" allies in the region except israel. The few iranians i met where quite open minded, scientific endavouring and driven people. Very creative. They even have that messianic martyr streak that makes for such nice founder stories. "For one year we suffered, wearing the cross of 16 h days- and then my company died, but on the third day, i pivoted and it ressurrected." the pull through narrative of the champions. Iran is one huge memorial for top-down modernization gone wrong along with turkey and i presume very soon - saudi arabia. Turns out- that when some cruel elite percived as a outsider force inserts a ideology, the people will reject it quite violently and ralley behind whatever oppossition available. The iran nuclear deal was a attempt to contain and prevent a local nuclear arms race. Which now will go into full gear i presume- israel has nukes, saudi arabia and iran will want them too - or at least join some retaliation strike pact like NATO. Which can be provided by any major nuclear force in the region. So lots of diplomats currently travelling and offering nuclear umbrellas. The colonial era drawn states dissolve and entitys alligned by culture/religion re-appear. What remains are some mixed out of the way clusters for minoritys, a small kurdistan, syria and a very large iran(including most of the former iraq) with some proxy states, and a wahabi- power block. Turkey will be cut off from the wahabi-block and get stuck in something similar to vietnam. Lots of the players will go for nukes to cement there conquered territories and enjoy the status of North Korea - in particular since the US seem to be on its way out into isolationism. Russia supports iran currently by accident. Israel has chosen the lesser competent evil as ally and supports saudi arabia against iran- although the very same saudi arabia still propels most the religious narrative of the islamic oppossition to israels existance. Its a great game, and the west is actually percived by now as a unreliable buisness-partner and dangerous - often absent replacable ally. A good coherent strategy would be for the west to force its actual allies - not by propaganda or current ruler, but by cultural development direction( israel, kurds, iran) into a coherent block and leave the rest of the region to do what it always does, repeat past mistakes. PS: North africa is turning into a bunch of warlords playing europe for ressources and bribes in return for holding refugees back.
deleted 8y ago
[deleted]

21 points by m1 8y ago

Title should be "Trump withdraws U.S. from nuclear agreement" or just "U.S. withdraws from nuclear agreement". The distinction matters as this is something the U.S. (not just Trump) is doing. The rest of the world care less about who or what causes the U.S. to act this way.

rando444 8y ago

Now that North Korea is becoming more friendly, one only hopes he's not grasping at straws to create a military conflict to create a distraction from his personal issues.

yongjik 8y ago
Unfortunately for everyone but Trump, if he wants North Korea to be less friendly, it's not exactly hard to do so. :/
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  Scrapping the Iran deal when Iran was widely viewed as being in compliance would be a very good way to make North Korea less inclined to deal.

satokema 8y ago

Can anyone actually give me an elevator summary of what this actually means without relying on tribal language or dog-whistles? Clicking link related doesn't actually explain why any of this matters to me outside of signaling and posturing; it just sends me to a timeline of various pundits and celebrities telling me how I should feel bad and angry about this.

AnimalMuppet 8y ago
The US had a deal with Iran where they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons, and we would ease back on the sanctions that were hurting their economy. Trump scrapped the deal, which (I presume) means the sanctions are going back in effect. That's going to hurt Iran's economy (and, to a much lesser extent, the US economy as well). It's also going to raise international tensions. Whether it's good or bad depends on your interpretation of whether Iran was keeping their end of the deal (the spirit, the letter, or both).
- s2g 8y ago
  Everyone except trump and Netanyahu said they were. It wasn’t just good faith, thy had to agree to access as part of the deal. This means they have much more freedom to pursue nuclear weapons research.
- nitwit005 8y ago
  The US might put the sanctions back in place, but I doubt the rest of the world will follow. Russia and China both signed trade deals to forge closer ties after the agreement. There's no real way for the US to impose sanctions without international support, except on the finance side.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > The US had a deal with Iran where they wouldn't pursue nuclear weapons, and we would ease back on the sanctions that were hurting their economy. Note that we did not agree to remove direct sanctions, only secondary sanctions (sanctions on non-Iranian entities doing business with Iran.)
runesoerensen 8y ago
This article gives a better overview than the "live" Guardian page: https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-iran-nuclear-deal.html https://www.nytimes.com/2018/05/08/world/middleeast/trump-ir... Also, Obama's take: https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155854913976749 https://www.facebook.com/barackobama/posts/10155854913976749

patrickg_zill 8y ago

One chart that I saw, indicates that the amount of business with Iran that the US does, is about $200 million dollars per year. The EU combined however, did about $25 Billion in trade with Iran last year. So it is much more significant to the EU than the US.

velobro 8y ago
Somewhere Putin is laughing historically. This is all so easy for him
- 0xfaded 8y ago
  Hysterical laughter of historic proportion.
dragonwriter 8y ago
The US still has direct sanctions on Iran, which is why the US-Iran trade numbers are so low: very little is allowed. The nuclear deal only addressed the US’s secondary sanctions, which apply to the EU entities (and others) that are trading with Iran.

pasbesoin 8y ago

Macron had it about right: Domestic reasons. Also, Trump is more comfortable with as well as playing strong man. He doesn't want the U.S. to win; he wants to "win". If he could, I'm sure he'd scrap term limits, fair elections, and line up his kids for dynasty. Finally, I'll mention that China's in the process of de facto purchasing Afghanistan. Not the political quagmire, but rather dominant if not sole proprietorship over the commercial interests. This will place them at Iran's border. And what's the name of that global trade "road" Xi is building? The counterbalance there will be Russia, to the extent they can back up their military with the commensurate expenditures. Not a counter-balance that works in the U.S.'s -- nor Europe's -- favor.

LifeLiverTransp 8y ago

The irony beeing that iran, culturally is much closer to the west then all those "natural" allies in the region except israel. The few iranians i met where quite open minded, scientific endavouring and driven people. Very creative. They even have that messianic martyr streak that makes for such nice founder stories. "For one year we suffered, wearing the cross of 16 h days- and then my company died, but on the third day, i pivoted and it ressurrected." the pull through narrative of the champions. Iran is one huge memorial for top-down modernization gone wrong along with turkey and i presume very soon - saudi arabia. Turns out- that when some cruel elite percived as a outsider force inserts a ideology, the people will reject it quite violently and ralley behind whatever oppossition available. The iran nuclear deal was a attempt to contain and prevent a local nuclear arms race. Which now will go into full gear i presume- israel has nukes, saudi arabia and iran will want them too - or at least join some retaliation strike pact like NATO. Which can be provided by any major nuclear force in the region. So lots of diplomats currently travelling and offering nuclear umbrellas. The colonial era drawn states dissolve and entitys alligned by culture/religion re-appear. What remains are some mixed out of the way clusters for minoritys, a small kurdistan, syria and a very large iran(including most of the former iraq) with some proxy states, and a wahabi- power block. Turkey will be cut off from the wahabi-block and get stuck in something similar to vietnam. Lots of the players will go for nukes to cement there conquered territories and enjoy the status of North Korea - in particular since the US seem to be on its way out into isolationism. Russia supports iran currently by accident. Israel has chosen the lesser competent evil as ally and supports saudi arabia against iran- although the very same saudi arabia still propels most the religious narrative of the islamic oppossition to israels existance. Its a great game, and the west is actually percived by now as a unreliable buisness-partner and dangerous - often absent replacable ally. A good coherent strategy would be for the west to force its actual allies - not by propaganda or current ruler, but by cultural development direction( israel, kurds, iran) into a coherent block and leave the rest of the region to do what it always does, repeat past mistakes. PS: North africa is turning into a bunch of warlords playing europe for ressources and bribes in return for holding refugees back.

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]