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Two big problems. One, AI mediation of language sees issues like bias amplification (AI learns our biases then suggests them back to us). Google itself wrote a

by dmazin 8y ago

Two big problems. One, AI mediation of language sees issues like bias amplification (AI learns our biases then suggests them back to us). Google itself wrote about this recently [1]. Two, spell check has a homogenizing effect on spelling [2]. If you extend this to the level of phrases, that will homogenize not just spelling but the very way we talk. [1] https://developers.googleblog.com/2018/04/text-embedding-models-contain-bias.html https://developers.googleblog.com/2018/04/text-embedding-mod... [2] https://www.nature.com/articles/srep00313#references https://www.nature.com/articles/srep00313#references

peatmoss 8y ago
To add a third, I have a problem with my personal emails being used as a corpus of text to train these models. Maybe they're using only my emails to train a model for me, and turning that feature off disables them doing so. Maybe they're using everyone's email to train a generic model. Of course, they've been (machine) reading your emails to provide ads since forever, so in that sense maybe this isn't really that new. That said, many people habituated to email reading for ads back when Google's brand image was riding higher.
- dmazin 8y ago
  Yup, I forgot where I read this, but I believe all Gmails are eligible for the model. Again, forgot where I saw this, but Google takes great precaution to protect your data from human inspection, but being used in the corpus is fair game.
  - peatmoss 8y ago
    I think if you are a (paid?) enterprise user, they do not do this. On the other hand, sussing out what is and is not fair game is quite a lot easier with a service such as Fastmail.
    - scrollaway 8y ago
      Doesn't have to be "enterprise". Anyone can pay $5/mo for GSuite (https://gsuite.google.com https://gsuite.google.com), which includes gmail and a ton of other tools. Furthermore, it's on your own domain rather than @gmail.com, which is not only better (you truly own the email address), it's also a hell of a lot more professional and makes it easier to migrate to other services if you wish to. To put it bluntly, if anyone here is complaining and has an @gmail.com address, email me and I'll be happy to help you buy your own domain and create MX records to either gsuite or fastmail. But I just can't hear the empty negativity anymore from consumers who say "no! bad google!", yet, by using the free product, keep making their emails available for the AI models and keep signaling to Google that an advertising business model works better than a paid-per-user one.
      - peatmoss 8y ago
        That's a generous offer, and one that I'd echo. If anyone is unsure where to start, or wants some advice, I'll be glad to help you with domain registration and email hosting MX record setup.
      - Bucephalus355 8y ago
        Why can’t I buy gmail and just use regular @gmail? Would love all the features of GSuite, but a custom domain name I would pay even more to avoid. Unless you’re running a business, it looks bizarre. For some in the development industry / those who write technical blogs I can imagine that being useful at times, but still......
        deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
        dannyw 8y ago
        Get a personal domain name, e.g. "taylor@bushinka.me" if your name is Taylor Bushinka. With @gmail.com, you have lock in. With @yourdomain.com, you don't.
        scrollaway 8y ago
  - prlambert 8y ago
    This is correct.
- prlambert 8y ago
  We're training Smart Compose from highly anonymized global corpus of consumer email. We've stopped using emails for Ad targeting entirely, and the enforcement is quite strict, as reported in June: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html
  - jedberg 8y ago
    You don't have an email in your profile, so I'm just gonna hijack this comment. :) I can't enable smart compose. My general tab doesn't have "Enable experiments" at the bottom. Is this getting rolled out in phases? I logged out and logged back in just in case, but no dice. My email is in my profile if you need it. Thanks!
    - prlambert 8y ago
      Rolling out over the course of the day. We'll be at 100% in a couple hours. Thanks for your patience. :)
      - jedberg 8y ago
        Sweet, thanks! I'll just keep hitting reload till I see it. ;)
  - peatmoss 8y ago
    > highly anonymized global corpus of consumer email. I read this as confirmation that, if I were a Gmail customer, that you would indeed be using my personal emails to train your models. For me, I then have to wonder what "highly anonymized" means in this context. Does this means that users' emails are put through yet another processing pipeline to separate emails into anonymous / not-anonymous buckets or to redact personally identifying information?
  - gone35 8y ago
    [H]ighly anonymized global corpus of consumer email. What do you mean by "highly anonymized"? What specific privacy notion are you using, and what is the (demonstrably unavoidable) tradeoff you are de facto threading between utility and privacy?
- ForHackernews 8y ago
  Don't use Gmail if you don't want Google reading your mail?

by dmazin 8y ago

peatmoss 8y ago

To add a third, I have a problem with my personal emails being used as a corpus of text to train these models. Maybe they're using only my emails to train a model for me, and turning that feature off disables them doing so. Maybe they're using everyone's email to train a generic model. Of course, they've been (machine) reading your emails to provide ads since forever, so in that sense maybe this isn't really that new. That said, many people habituated to email reading for ads back when Google's brand image was riding higher.

dmazin 8y ago
Yup, I forgot where I read this, but I believe all Gmails are eligible for the model. Again, forgot where I saw this, but Google takes great precaution to protect your data from human inspection, but being used in the corpus is fair game.
- peatmoss 8y ago
  I think if you are a (paid?) enterprise user, they do not do this. On the other hand, sussing out what is and is not fair game is quite a lot easier with a service such as Fastmail.
  - scrollaway 8y ago
    Doesn't have to be "enterprise". Anyone can pay $5/mo for GSuite (https://gsuite.google.com https://gsuite.google.com), which includes gmail and a ton of other tools. Furthermore, it's on your own domain rather than @gmail.com, which is not only better (you truly own the email address), it's also a hell of a lot more professional and makes it easier to migrate to other services if you wish to. To put it bluntly, if anyone here is complaining and has an @gmail.com address, email me and I'll be happy to help you buy your own domain and create MX records to either gsuite or fastmail. But I just can't hear the empty negativity anymore from consumers who say "no! bad google!", yet, by using the free product, keep making their emails available for the AI models and keep signaling to Google that an advertising business model works better than a paid-per-user one.
    - peatmoss 8y ago
      That's a generous offer, and one that I'd echo. If anyone is unsure where to start, or wants some advice, I'll be glad to help you with domain registration and email hosting MX record setup.
    - Bucephalus355 8y ago
      Why can’t I buy gmail and just use regular @gmail? Would love all the features of GSuite, but a custom domain name I would pay even more to avoid. Unless you’re running a business, it looks bizarre. For some in the development industry / those who write technical blogs I can imagine that being useful at times, but still......
      - deleted 8y ago
        [deleted]
      - dannyw 8y ago
        Get a personal domain name, e.g. "taylor@bushinka.me" if your name is Taylor Bushinka. With @gmail.com, you have lock in. With @yourdomain.com, you don't.
      - scrollaway 8y ago
- prlambert 8y ago
  This is correct.
prlambert 8y ago
We're training Smart Compose from highly anonymized global corpus of consumer email. We've stopped using emails for Ad targeting entirely, and the enforcement is quite strict, as reported in June: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/23/technology/gmail-ads.html
- jedberg 8y ago
  You don't have an email in your profile, so I'm just gonna hijack this comment. :) I can't enable smart compose. My general tab doesn't have "Enable experiments" at the bottom. Is this getting rolled out in phases? I logged out and logged back in just in case, but no dice. My email is in my profile if you need it. Thanks!
  - prlambert 8y ago
    Rolling out over the course of the day. We'll be at 100% in a couple hours. Thanks for your patience. :)
    - jedberg 8y ago
      Sweet, thanks! I'll just keep hitting reload till I see it. ;)
- peatmoss 8y ago
  > highly anonymized global corpus of consumer email. I read this as confirmation that, if I were a Gmail customer, that you would indeed be using my personal emails to train your models. For me, I then have to wonder what "highly anonymized" means in this context. Does this means that users' emails are put through yet another processing pipeline to separate emails into anonymous / not-anonymous buckets or to redact personally identifying information?
- gone35 8y ago
  [H]ighly anonymized global corpus of consumer email. What do you mean by "highly anonymized"? What specific privacy notion are you using, and what is the (demonstrably unavoidable) tradeoff you are de facto threading between utility and privacy?
ForHackernews 8y ago
Don't use Gmail if you don't want Google reading your mail?