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Even consumers hardly use credit cards in Germany. Only about 18% of payments are made with credit cards (https://qz.com/262595/why-germans-pay-cash-for-almost-

by Cenk 8y ago

Even consumers hardly use credit cards in Germany. Only about 18% of payments are made with credit cards (https://qz.com/262595/why-germans-pay-cash-for-almost-everything/ https://qz.com/262595/why-germans-pay-cash-for-almost-everyt...)

overcast 8y ago
Do German credit cards not have cashback programs? When every transaction I make gives me back 1-6%, that adds up significantly over time. It's essentially subtracting tax off of groceries and gas for me.
- the-dude 8y ago
  No cashbacks in Western Europe as far as I am aware. How do feel about shafting all your suppliers? Because that is about the sentiment here.
  - mattmanser 8y ago
    This is wrong, there are cash back cards in the UK, for example. American express operates over here: https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/platinum-cashback-credit-card/ https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/platinum-cas... For the grandparent, cash back cards work by charging a higher percentage to the retailer and they haven't seen much traction or support in many European countries. Effectively in the long term they simply raise prices and give a greater cut to the card processor, theoretically they're overall a bad thing for consumers.
  - graeme 8y ago
    I really wish they would pass a law in North America allowing merchants to charge percentages based on card used. Credit cards have some great features: * buyer protection in case of fraud * delayed payment helps buyer cashflow * instant payment for merchant * no overhead fees compared to handling cash But, the extra percentage added for cashback is pure externality. Right now merchants' only option is declining a card type entirely, like some do for AMEX. Europe's economy is effectively saving perhaps 2% over North America's. I'm assuming here that 0.7% is the useful part credit cards do.
    - dumbfounder 8y ago
      Why do we need a law to allow this? If there is a law that disallows it we would need to repeal that law. I am not aware of such a law though. I thought that merchants choose not to do this because it is seen as nickle-and-diming people, and they don't want the negative sentiment. Taking credit cards is just a cost of doing business. That said, lots of gas stations offer discounts for cash.
      - graeme 8y ago
        Here's a case in Canada: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/merchants-may-soon-ask-customers-to-pay-surcharge-when-using-credit-cards-1.3459584 https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/merchants-may-soon-as... Badically, credit card processing agreements prohibited fees. But as a matter of public interest a lawsuit was brought and fees were allowed. This is still quite recent so we haven't seen any effects. "Just a cost of doing business" is the point. Europe saves 2% annually compared to our system. A 2% private tax is very large.
        dumbfounder 8y ago
        And, because they don't spend money they don't have, they spend less. But less spending means shrinkage in the economy (or so I'm told), but means poor people are less poor. And it means that rich people are less rich (that interest that poor people pay doesn't go to other poor people). Today I realized that credit card companies are the root of all evil. Save us, Bitcoin!
samb1729 8y ago
18% of payments are made with cards, not necessarily of the credit variety. Given the attitude to debt suggested by that article, I'd bet the majority of those card payments are debit card payments.

by Cenk 8y ago

overcast 8y ago

Do German credit cards not have cashback programs? When every transaction I make gives me back 1-6%, that adds up significantly over time. It's essentially subtracting tax off of groceries and gas for me.

the-dude 8y ago
No cashbacks in Western Europe as far as I am aware. How do feel about shafting all your suppliers? Because that is about the sentiment here.
- mattmanser 8y ago
  This is wrong, there are cash back cards in the UK, for example. American express operates over here: https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/platinum-cashback-credit-card/ https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/platinum-cas... For the grandparent, cash back cards work by charging a higher percentage to the retailer and they haven't seen much traction or support in many European countries. Effectively in the long term they simply raise prices and give a greater cut to the card processor, theoretically they're overall a bad thing for consumers.
- graeme 8y ago
  I really wish they would pass a law in North America allowing merchants to charge percentages based on card used. Credit cards have some great features: * buyer protection in case of fraud * delayed payment helps buyer cashflow * instant payment for merchant * no overhead fees compared to handling cash But, the extra percentage added for cashback is pure externality. Right now merchants' only option is declining a card type entirely, like some do for AMEX. Europe's economy is effectively saving perhaps 2% over North America's. I'm assuming here that 0.7% is the useful part credit cards do.
  - dumbfounder 8y ago
    Why do we need a law to allow this? If there is a law that disallows it we would need to repeal that law. I am not aware of such a law though. I thought that merchants choose not to do this because it is seen as nickle-and-diming people, and they don't want the negative sentiment. Taking credit cards is just a cost of doing business. That said, lots of gas stations offer discounts for cash.
    - graeme 8y ago
      Here's a case in Canada: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/merchants-may-soon-ask-customers-to-pay-surcharge-when-using-credit-cards-1.3459584 https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/merchants-may-soon-as... Badically, credit card processing agreements prohibited fees. But as a matter of public interest a lawsuit was brought and fees were allowed. This is still quite recent so we haven't seen any effects. "Just a cost of doing business" is the point. Europe saves 2% annually compared to our system. A 2% private tax is very large.
      - dumbfounder 8y ago
        And, because they don't spend money they don't have, they spend less. But less spending means shrinkage in the economy (or so I'm told), but means poor people are less poor. And it means that rich people are less rich (that interest that poor people pay doesn't go to other poor people). Today I realized that credit card companies are the root of all evil. Save us, Bitcoin!

samb1729 8y ago

18% of payments are made with cards, not necessarily of the credit variety. Given the attitude to debt suggested by that article, I'd bet the majority of those card payments are debit card payments.