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Something like this will never work in Germany. 99% of business transactions are done via a simple SEPA transfer, which doesn't incur any fees.
by nik736 8y ago
Something like this will never work in Germany. 99% of business transactions are done via a simple SEPA transfer, which doesn't incur any fees.
- epanchin 8y agoDo you have figures to back up this claim? I understand for regular procurement the importance of cost saving. But in product development paying everything with bank transfers rather than with corporate cards sounds like a ballache.
- Cenk 8y agoEven consumers hardly use credit cards in Germany. Only about 18% of payments are made with credit cards (https://qz.com/262595/why-germans-pay-cash-for-almost-everything/ https://qz.com/262595/why-germans-pay-cash-for-almost-everyt...)
- overcast 8y agoDo German credit cards not have cashback programs? When every transaction I make gives me back 1-6%, that adds up significantly over time. It's essentially subtracting tax off of groceries and gas for me.
- the-dude 8y agoNo cashbacks in Western Europe as far as I am aware. How do feel about shafting all your suppliers? Because that is about the sentiment here.
- mattmanser 8y agoThis is wrong, there are cash back cards in the UK, for example. American express operates over here: https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/platinum-cashback-credit-card/ https://www.americanexpress.com/uk/credit-cards/platinum-cas... For the grandparent, cash back cards work by charging a higher percentage to the retailer and they haven't seen much traction or support in many European countries. Effectively in the long term they simply raise prices and give a greater cut to the card processor, theoretically they're overall a bad thing for consumers.
- graeme 8y agoI really wish they would pass a law in North America allowing merchants to charge percentages based on card used. Credit cards have some great features: * buyer protection in case of fraud * delayed payment helps buyer cashflow * instant payment for merchant * no overhead fees compared to handling cash But, the extra percentage added for cashback is pure externality. Right now merchants' only option is declining a card type entirely, like some do for AMEX. Europe's economy is effectively saving perhaps 2% over North America's. I'm assuming here that 0.7% is the useful part credit cards do.
- dumbfounder 8y agoWhy do we need a law to allow this? If there is a law that disallows it we would need to repeal that law. I am not aware of such a law though. I thought that merchants choose not to do this because it is seen as nickle-and-diming people, and they don't want the negative sentiment. Taking credit cards is just a cost of doing business. That said, lots of gas stations offer discounts for cash.
- graeme 8y agoHere's a case in Canada: https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/merchants-may-soon-ask-customers-to-pay-surcharge-when-using-credit-cards-1.3459584 https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/business/merchants-may-soon-as... Badically, credit card processing agreements prohibited fees. But as a matter of public interest a lawsuit was brought and fees were allowed. This is still quite recent so we haven't seen any effects. "Just a cost of doing business" is the point. Europe saves 2% annually compared to our system. A 2% private tax is very large.
- dumbfounder 8y agoAnd, because they don't spend money they don't have, they spend less. But less spending means shrinkage in the economy (or so I'm told), but means poor people are less poor. And it means that rich people are less rich (that interest that poor people pay doesn't go to other poor people). Today I realized that credit card companies are the root of all evil. Save us, Bitcoin!
- samb1729 8y ago18% of payments are made with cards, not necessarily of the credit variety. Given the attitude to debt suggested by that article, I'd bet the majority of those card payments are debit card payments.
- _rknLA 8y agoIt is dramatically easier to send someone a bank transfer in Europe (and I'd imagine, the rest of the world) than it is in the US. All you need is the recipient's IBAN (and sometimes BIC, which is usually already in the IBAN), and boom, you can initiate a transfer from your bank to theirs, for free. It blows my mind that banks in the US still haven't figure out how to do this.
- louisswiss 8y agoIt blows my mind that you think it's a matter of "can't" over "don't want to"...
- true_religion 8y agoDo you really just need one number to initiate transfers in Europe? US banks do have IBANs, but you still need an account number in order to finish up the process.
- nik736 8y agoIn my online banking account I type in a name, the IBAN, the amount and optionally a description. That's it.
- the-dude 8y agoRegular business transfers with trusted partners is almost 100% done by regular bank transfer in Western Europe ( I am talking about NL, but I am pretty sure it applies for DE/DK etc as well ). You order a bunch of X, get the invoice, pay the invoice within its term ( usually 30 days ). It is not even cost-saving : we had to conduct businesses before creditcards were widely available.
- draw_down 8y agoCome on.
- scrollaway 8y agoIf it uses Stripe Elements for this (the v3 api), there is support for a SEPA dialog in there.
- nik736 8y agoProblem with this is that it's SEPA Direct Debit. That means you can charge other cards, most companies will never agree to something like that. They prefer sending it themselves.
- DavideP86 8y agoHi Nik, You're totally right about Germany. I'm European too! Within domestic markets, a solution like SEPA is definitively convenient and fast, but from my personal experience, the game is totally different if we talk about international transfers. A bank wire from the UE to the US (for example), has high fixed costs, so it can become pretty uncomfortable and expensive for small and medium transactions. In a real scenario, if you require up to $1000, a tool like Wirize can be cheaper than a traditional bank wire. Please let me know if you've further questions.