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I thought progressive enhancement. I think people expect much more interactivity now, (I think google maps was a driver and web based email as well), so it bec

I thought progressive enhancement. I think people expect much more interactivity now, (I think google maps was a driver and web based email as well), so it became harder to do pure back end. For example a lot of the queries I run now show a dynamically generated graph. I can do that on the back end, but much easier to use a javascript charting package. I guess I could just use javascript all the way down

reitanqild 9y ago
> I think people expect much more interactivity now, This keeps coming up. Personally I keep thinking that devs and cv-driven development might be to blame as I rarely hear any customer demand anything that demands a frontend framework for their web sites (now web apps, that's another story).
- TeMPOraL 9y ago
  Seconded. Actual users have little demand. Especially non-tech users. They just take what devs give them. Frontend stuff seems mostly fashion-driven these days, with designers copying other designers. I can't imagine any user actually asking for hero images, hamburger menus, floating headers/footers, webfonts, or making JS required to render article text.
  - pjmlp 9y ago
    It is not without its own set of quirks, but native frontend is surely much more sane.
  - CamTin 9y ago
    It is fashion-driven, but that's not to say that it ignores what users want. Nobody was asking for bell bottoms or leisure suits either, but people bought millions of them. Customers will say "our site needs a refresh" or "our site looks dated", when what they mean is that, regardless of whether or not its functional, they seem old and stodgy compared to their competitors. This happens in brick-and-mortar too: restaurant or shop owners will remodel even if there's nothing really wrong with their existing shop functionally. The real problem is that fashions are even possible on the web. This is what Ted Nelson calls the "triumph of typesetters over authors," and it's one of the great tragedies of the computer age. We could have had a real, global, hypertext system with working two way links and micropayments, but instead we got HTTP and HTML.
TuringTest 9y ago
If your page consist solely on a dynamically generated graph, it's OK for it to not show anything with JS disabled. If you have other content though, it's not OK to not show anything; only the graph should be missing without javascript, the rest of the page should still render.
- romaniv 9y ago
  >If your page consist solely on a dynamically generated graph You can put data for the graph into a table, then use a script to render that table as a graph. If people cared enough, graph libraries could expect heir data in table format.
  - acomjean 9y ago
    I use the graph and a table under technique. Saddly most graph libraries seem to love json data formats, which aren't logically table oriented... though if you used the json data and javascript to load the table and create the graph...

reitanqild 9y ago

> I think people expect much more interactivity now, This keeps coming up. Personally I keep thinking that devs and cv-driven development might be to blame as I rarely hear any customer demand anything that demands a frontend framework for their web sites (now web apps, that's another story).

TeMPOraL 9y ago
Seconded. Actual users have little demand. Especially non-tech users. They just take what devs give them. Frontend stuff seems mostly fashion-driven these days, with designers copying other designers. I can't imagine any user actually asking for hero images, hamburger menus, floating headers/footers, webfonts, or making JS required to render article text.
- pjmlp 9y ago
  It is not without its own set of quirks, but native frontend is surely much more sane.
- CamTin 9y ago
  It is fashion-driven, but that's not to say that it ignores what users want. Nobody was asking for bell bottoms or leisure suits either, but people bought millions of them. Customers will say "our site needs a refresh" or "our site looks dated", when what they mean is that, regardless of whether or not its functional, they seem old and stodgy compared to their competitors. This happens in brick-and-mortar too: restaurant or shop owners will remodel even if there's nothing really wrong with their existing shop functionally. The real problem is that fashions are even possible on the web. This is what Ted Nelson calls the "triumph of typesetters over authors," and it's one of the great tragedies of the computer age. We could have had a real, global, hypertext system with working two way links and micropayments, but instead we got HTTP and HTML.

TuringTest 9y ago

If your page consist solely on a dynamically generated graph, it's OK for it to not show anything with JS disabled. If you have other content though, it's not OK to not show anything; only the graph should be missing without javascript, the rest of the page should still render.

romaniv 9y ago
>If your page consist solely on a dynamically generated graph You can put data for the graph into a table, then use a script to render that table as a graph. If people cared enough, graph libraries could expect heir data in table format.
- acomjean 9y ago
  I use the graph and a table under technique. Saddly most graph libraries seem to love json data formats, which aren't logically table oriented... though if you used the json data and javascript to load the table and create the graph...