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As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this. Just to ma
by blhack 8y ago
As far as I'm concerned, torx is the only reasonable screw anymore. It seems like most construction screws (at least in the US) have moved to this.
Just to make the point: I've stripped out more torx drivers than I have torx heads.
I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out.
Somebody elsewhere in this thread made the point that they are self-centering, and make industrial manufacturing easier. I guess that makes sense.
- micheljansen 8y agoAs someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Flathead screws only restrict the movement of the screwdriver in one dimension and allow it to move in the other one. This leads to the screwdriver to keep sliding out when you put force on under even the slightest angle. Phillips screws improve on this design by restricting movement in two dimensions and force the screwdriver to always be in the center, but they slip easily and wear quickly. Torx are superior because they fit much more "snugly", though at the (minor) cost of being less forgiving of using the wrong size of screwdriver.
- blhack 8y agoYeah that's fair. I guess I was thinking of flatheads as small machine screws and things like that, where only a few rotations are actually necessary.
- kbrosnan 8y agoAn advantage of flathead is that it is easy to unfoul the screw head. A minute with a utility knife or a flathead screwdriver will clear the channel of dirt or paint. I would not want to deal with a torx that has several layers of paint dried into it.
- micheljansen 8y agoI have fortunately not had to experience that. I guess a special screw extractor tool might be the only option then.
- dalore 8y agoBreak out the drill and drill a tiny hole down the centre to crack the screw. Now pull it out and can put in a new clean one.
- atom058 8y agoUsing a reverse drill (if you have one) might also be helpful The drill will bite into the screw and start unscrewing it
- magduf 8y agoI think a better solution to this problem is a different tool: a bulldozer.
- heavenlyblue 8y agoUse a needle or a knife.
- stinos 8y agoAs someone who has just remodelled an old house with loads of flatheads: you've got to be kidding me. I hate those things with a passion. Came here to say the exact same thing. Rusty flatheads, ah, such joy. Literally lost hours because of it.
- lostlogin 8y agoI’m sure you have worked this out but my technique is to scrape all the paint off very carefully, then crack the lock by turning the screw in the wrong direction. Sometimes I hit the screw driver with a hammer too. After the lock is broken, turn the screw the right way. This way, stripping the head isn’t such a problem as it’s burring off the head in the wrong directions, saving the important edge for actually getting it out.
- micheljansen 8y agoYes, I also quickly developed some skill with a utility knife, getting the paint out and creating space for the screwdriver head, but I never found a good way to prevent the screwdriver from sliding sideways. Especially with large screws that require a lot of force to remove.
- lostlogin 8y agoHeat and then a crack with a hammer have been my method. Always using the absolute tightest getting screw driver. I still snap the screw maybe 1 time in 5 due to the torque I can get on it. I’m repairing rusted out 1940s window hinges, and it’s truest awful. Have got about 100-150 to go, but I’ve done maybe 300.
- olivermarks 8y agoI use a cheap chisel the same width as flathead screw, thoroughly clean out the slot with it and use as a screwdriver with very heavy pressure as I turn. This was for very old (circa 1900) screws in old growth wood.
- 24gttghh 8y agoIf I was in charge of these things, I would enact a 'Fahrenheit 451'-style policy, except for Flathead screws instead of books. Any of the other myriad style of screws is preferable to those ancient fasteners.
- Karunamon 8y agoAgreed. There are two things that I feel should be destroyed and replaced on sight for the betterment of humanity: flat head screws/drivers, and network hubs. It would probably even cause a measurable increase in lifespan due to removal of a significant stress source. But I can dream...
- alex_duf 8y agoI see your point, but if the remaining problem to solve in our civilisation is what type of screw heads then we're doing pretty good :)
- tlb 8y agoDo you mean in the strict usage of a Ethernet repeater hub, as opposed to a switch? Where do you still encounter those dinosaurs?
- Karunamon 8y agoEverywhere in large/old enterprises. I swear they multiply when nobody's looking, and they tend to cause massive headaches when they're plugged in by the unaware. Hence: Kill on sight.
- bluGill 8y agoYou probably have a cheap flathead screwdriver which has tapered edges. They are significantly more expensive, but a good flathead with edges that are square to the screw slot works much better. (I'm not sure if I described that well) To make them work even better you can burnish a slight edge one the blade which will dig in and stop slippage.
- zrobotics 8y agoThey don't even need to be expensive. I have no clue why these aren't more common, but keep a cheap set of gunsmithing screwdriver bits around. Never seen them in a hardware store, but they are far superior to regular flathead bits with a chisel shape. Or just regrind all your screwdrivers when you buy them, which also makes it really easy to identify which flathead screwdrivers are reserved for hammering/prybar duty.
- skykooler 8y agoAnother issue with torx is that the driver has to go in mostly square. Flathead or phillips screws can be turned if there's an obstacle directly behind the screw and you need to put the screwdriver in at a slight angle.
- spronkey 8y agoI prefer square drive to Torx for larger screws. But I agree with Philips... yikes.
- mattmaroon 8y agoSquare heads are also acceptable. Kreg uses them for pocket hole screws and I like how easy it is to get the bit in when you're in a tight spot. They resist cam out pretty well also, I've not yet had a screw of either type I couldn't easily remove. A good flat head screw is better than a crappy Phillips but a bad one is worse. The bad ones seem to strip by design.
- magduf 8y agoNo, they don't just seem to: Phillips was specifically designed to cam out. It was invented for this very purpose. When you're cursing with a Phillips screw that's stripped-out, you need to know that the fastener is doing exactly what it was designed to. The problem is people expecting these screws to be easily removable; that was never the intention. And the other problem is people using them for applications where they might want to remove them one day; that again is contrary to the design goal and intended use of the Phillips screw.
- mmillin 8y agoThe linked article says that there isn't a lot of evidence that was a deliberate design decision. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_screw_drives#Phillips
- glenneroo 8y ago"There has long been a popular belief that this was actually a deliberate feature of the design, for the purpose of assembling aluminum aircraft without overtightening the fasteners. Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents. However, a 1949 refinement to the original design described in US Patent #2,474,994 describes this feature."
- simonbarker87 8y agoMy issue with kreg is that the driver isn’t a perfect fit for the screws so when you take them out you have to knock them off the driver tip somehow. It’s like it’s an imperial metric mismatch but they are all official kreg parts so don’t know.
- magduf 8y ago>I can say I truly don't understand how phillips ever even took hold over flatheads. Cheap phillips head screws seem designed to strip out. It's not cheap ones; Phillips heads were designed to strip out. It's the very reason they're used. The whole idea was to use them in factory assembly, so that workers wouldn't overtorque them. You put them in and tighten, and when they cam out, you're done. If you want a fastener that can be easily removed, and maybe reused several times, Phillips is the wrong choice. And if you have a torque-limiting screwdriver, as should be common in any modern factory, then Phillips is simply obsolete and unnecessary.
- andrewla 8y agoThis was my understanding as well, but the wikipedia article directly addresses it and say that it is a common myth with no supporting evidence.
- Ajedi32 8y ago> Extensive evidence is lacking for this specific narrative, and the feature is not mentioned in the original patents. However, a 1949 refinement to the original design described in US Patent #2,474,994 describes this feature.
- jandrese 8y agoThat makes it sound like a software "feature" that gets added to the docs because it turns out to be useful in an unexpected way.
- monochromatic 8y agoWell, they’re designed to cam out. Not strip out.
- magduf 8y agoIt only takes a small number of cam-outs before it's stripping out.
- simonbarker87 8y agoIf by flat head you mean “-“ shape then the main reason is that if you don’t have the drill bit centre plain in the exact same plain as the screws then it’s a nightmare to remove. For metal of pre threaded holes this isn’t an issue but drilling into wood where even with a pilot hole you can be a few degrees of perpendicular to the surface flat heads are significantly slower to work with.