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I guess I understand the downvotes here, but I really do think you've hit on at least an issue. Maybe not the issue, but it's a pretty big problem. RMS's condu

I guess I understand the downvotes here, but I really do think you've hit on at least an issue. Maybe not the issue, but it's a pretty big problem. RMS's conduct here is just... pretty inappropriate. Jokes about abortion, rape, race, sexual orientation, etc, etc, are not something you should be touching as the maintainer of a public project, no matter what your opinions are or how strongly you hold them. The glibc maintainers (completely reasonably) decided that the man pages weren't a good place for potentially-charged jokes like this, and removed it. RMS overruled them in a pretty childlike and insensitive fashion, and that's not appropriate when you're the public face of anything. I don't give a shit about the politics of glibc - but I do care that someone who is a role model and a public figure acts like this.

sillysaurus3 8y ago
I do care that someone who is a role model and a public figure acts like this. Why? It's fine to be offended. It's his project. Just fork and move on, if necessary.
- lmitchell 8y ago
  This ignores both the fact that RMS is much more than just the maintainer of glibc, and the fact that 'just forking' glibc doesn't stop the maintainer from having a significant amount of public influence. The problem is not anything to do with glibc - it's the conduct of someone who, like it or not, is a role model for a lot of people in the community, and has taken on a very public role.
  - sillysaurus3 8y ago
    So? Policing humor is a trope in dystopian novels for a reason. If someone wants to make unsightly jokes, you're free to be offended. But implying that it's not acceptable to act that way is probably a bit far.
    - jsmthrowaway 8y ago
      Counter to your glorious Fahrenheit 451 perception of either contemporary society or our future one, it’s just as dystopian to permit humor to be used as suppression of a marginalized subset of people. It is perfectly acceptable to expect that people not discriminate against others that are unlike them, in any way, lest that be a possibility. The key to humor that is actually funny is understanding that, particularly how the word I intentionally emphasized applies to comedy. (Not saying that happened here, just reacting to your broadening to “policing humor.” Humor is also, you know, funny. That did happen here. Stallman should stick to his day gig.)
      - sillysaurus3 8y ago
        Isn't it a little hyperbolic to imply that an offhanded joke is suppressing a marginalized subset of people? Or that it was discriminatory? Here's his full reply in context: https://lwn.net/Articles/753654/ https://lwn.net/Articles/753654/
        tptacek 8y ago
        You guys both seem to really want there to be high-stakes politics implicated in this story, but there aren't, and pretending that there are looks pretty dumb. It is unlikely in the extreme that the maintainers who want to remove Stallman's dated, unfunny joke are pro-lifers. Presumably, they just think it's a cringey distraction, like this subthread. The issue is whether Stallman gets veto rights on glibc commits. The maintainers say he doesn't. Since Stallman doesn't do much glibc work, and the maintainers do, presumably Stallman is going to lose this, unless they let him save face out of affection.
        jsmthrowaway 8y ago
        The disengaging prophecy is fulfilled! For my next trick, I shall make this subthread disappear! (Focus, people. Stallman’s commit bit. Stay on target and let’s figure this thing out. Did we get closure on the apt-get cow, or are we tabling that?)
- da_chicken 8y ago
  Because it hasn't been just his project since he began accepting patches. It's a reflection on every contributor and every member of the community. When a project is the product of many peoples work, dirtying the face of the project affects everyone.
jsmthrowaway 8y ago
> I guess I understand the downvotes here You’d be surprised. It bottomed out at -3 and is now oscillating around 0 and -1. That’s a surprisingly encouraging sign. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of a problem. I think the industry’s reaction to it is an even bigger one and it’s right here, in this thread. Or lack thereof.
icebraining 8y ago
someone who is a role model But is he? Who considers rms as a role model generally? Barely anyone even knows his positions on anything other than software, and those are often derided. And that's on HN, where he's actually known. My colleagues wouldn't even know his name.
michaelmrose 8y ago
Why did you bring in "Jokes about abortion, rape, race, sexual orientation, etc, etc,". When the joke was actually about censorship?

sillysaurus3 8y ago

I do care that someone who is a role model and a public figure acts like this. Why? It's fine to be offended. It's his project. Just fork and move on, if necessary.

lmitchell 8y ago
This ignores both the fact that RMS is much more than just the maintainer of glibc, and the fact that 'just forking' glibc doesn't stop the maintainer from having a significant amount of public influence. The problem is not anything to do with glibc - it's the conduct of someone who, like it or not, is a role model for a lot of people in the community, and has taken on a very public role.
- sillysaurus3 8y ago
  So? Policing humor is a trope in dystopian novels for a reason. If someone wants to make unsightly jokes, you're free to be offended. But implying that it's not acceptable to act that way is probably a bit far.
  - jsmthrowaway 8y ago
    Counter to your glorious Fahrenheit 451 perception of either contemporary society or our future one, it’s just as dystopian to permit humor to be used as suppression of a marginalized subset of people. It is perfectly acceptable to expect that people not discriminate against others that are unlike them, in any way, lest that be a possibility. The key to humor that is actually funny is understanding that, particularly how the word I intentionally emphasized applies to comedy. (Not saying that happened here, just reacting to your broadening to “policing humor.” Humor is also, you know, funny. That did happen here. Stallman should stick to his day gig.)
    - sillysaurus3 8y ago
      Isn't it a little hyperbolic to imply that an offhanded joke is suppressing a marginalized subset of people? Or that it was discriminatory? Here's his full reply in context: https://lwn.net/Articles/753654/ https://lwn.net/Articles/753654/
      - tptacek 8y ago
        You guys both seem to really want there to be high-stakes politics implicated in this story, but there aren't, and pretending that there are looks pretty dumb. It is unlikely in the extreme that the maintainers who want to remove Stallman's dated, unfunny joke are pro-lifers. Presumably, they just think it's a cringey distraction, like this subthread. The issue is whether Stallman gets veto rights on glibc commits. The maintainers say he doesn't. Since Stallman doesn't do much glibc work, and the maintainers do, presumably Stallman is going to lose this, unless they let him save face out of affection.
        jsmthrowaway 8y ago
        The disengaging prophecy is fulfilled! For my next trick, I shall make this subthread disappear! (Focus, people. Stallman’s commit bit. Stay on target and let’s figure this thing out. Did we get closure on the apt-get cow, or are we tabling that?)
da_chicken 8y ago
Because it hasn't been just his project since he began accepting patches. It's a reflection on every contributor and every member of the community. When a project is the product of many peoples work, dirtying the face of the project affects everyone.

jsmthrowaway 8y ago

> I guess I understand the downvotes here You’d be surprised. It bottomed out at -3 and is now oscillating around 0 and -1. That’s a surprisingly encouraging sign. I agree wholeheartedly with your assessment of a problem. I think the industry’s reaction to it is an even bigger one and it’s right here, in this thread. Or lack thereof.

icebraining 8y ago

someone who is a role model But is he? Who considers rms as a role model generally? Barely anyone even knows his positions on anything other than software, and those are often derided. And that's on HN, where he's actually known. My colleagues wouldn't even know his name.

michaelmrose 8y ago

Why did you bring in "Jokes about abortion, rape, race, sexual orientation, etc, etc,". When the joke was actually about censorship?