4 ms·

I wish I could make RMS, and you, and everyone who agrees with you, live in a sort of reverse-Kantian world, where whatever you advocate for as acceptable behav

I wish I could make RMS, and you, and everyone who agrees with you, live in a sort of reverse-Kantian world, where whatever you advocate for as acceptable behavior when you do it becomes a universal law of conduct for other people to use when interacting with you. No matter how much of a "thick skin" you may think you have, I'd lay money that in a world which truly worked this way, you'd last under an hour before abandoning your position and calling for stronger social norms against being an ass to people.

ciupicri 8y ago
I think RMS has been "attacked" quite a lot of times since he founded FSF and even before it, yet look at him, he's still advocating for what he believes in.
bhhaskin 8y ago
You should practice what you preach, because your statement doesn't make me feel very welcome or safe right now. You seem to make a lot of assumptions about me and the world I live in. I just said I agree with RMS on this, and you straight up attacked me personally.
- ubernostrum 8y ago
  I just said I agree with RMS on this, and you straight up attacked me personally. The worst thing I would wish on you is for you to live a while in a world run according to your own espoused values. If you feel that's an attack, it's a problem with your values. (at least, that's how I think I'm supposed to respond here, since people aren't supposed to "feel attacked" or "get offended" by such things, apparently)
  - sandov 8y ago
    You're basically saying his values are wrong without any explanation of how you came to such a conclusion. You're also making wild statements about how he would react to some imaginary world. Probably not the right way to have a discussion.
    - ubernostrum 8y ago
      The comment was "People need to grow up", accompanied by blaming people for being offended. I do think that's wrong. And I do think having to live in a world where everyone operated by those values would quickly cure the original commenter of believing this sort of thing. In fact, I think it's a very easy way to communicate what's wrong.
craigsmansion 8y ago
> I wish I could make RMS, and you, and everyone who agrees with you, live in a sort of reverse-Kantian world, where whatever you advocate for as acceptable behavior when you do it becomes a universal law of conduct for other people to use when interacting with you. You want to transport me back to the 70's MIT AI lab? I'm so there!
- p_l 8y ago
  Considering the stories of the breakdown of MIT AI Lab, you might be... surprised. (No, Levy's book was not honest to the facts)
  - paulmd 8y ago
    I don't know the context of this, explanation?
    - p_l 8y ago
      "Hackers: Heroes of the Computing Revolution" is probably the most common source for those who "weren't there" about AI Lab, and it paints a story of the lab being destroyed by Symbolics, proprietary software etc. - I have personally seen the meme of "AI Lab hackers got bought out" with referrals to the book itself. What a lot of people don't know is that one of the descriptions used by RMS to talk about how "AI Lab lost people", the story of how he couldn't meet people at lunch, isn't because they left AI Lab for "evil corporations". It was because a lot of people avoided RMS, especially after lawsuit often considered more crucial for the creation of GNU than the Xerox printer story (Stallman violated Symbolics-MIT source licensing deal). From better sources, I have met two AI Lab members from 1970s - one even claimed to have been RMS' supervisor back when RMS was Harvard Undergrad working part-time (and if certain war story is to be believed, is indirectly responsible for Emacs happening) - the impression left was that a lot of RMS' AI Lab contemporaries wouldn't shake hands with him since 1980s. Heard also interesting stories on RMS' mismanagement of early Hurd initiative and how it resulted in close to 0 work being done.
pydumpsterfire 8y ago
Ah, but aren't you pretty famous yourself for being just that?

ciupicri 8y ago

I think RMS has been "attacked" quite a lot of times since he founded FSF and even before it, yet look at him, he's still advocating for what he believes in.

bhhaskin 8y ago

You should practice what you preach, because your statement doesn't make me feel very welcome or safe right now. You seem to make a lot of assumptions about me and the world I live in. I just said I agree with RMS on this, and you straight up attacked me personally.

ubernostrum 8y ago
I just said I agree with RMS on this, and you straight up attacked me personally. The worst thing I would wish on you is for you to live a while in a world run according to your own espoused values. If you feel that's an attack, it's a problem with your values. (at least, that's how I think I'm supposed to respond here, since people aren't supposed to "feel attacked" or "get offended" by such things, apparently)
- sandov 8y ago
  You're basically saying his values are wrong without any explanation of how you came to such a conclusion. You're also making wild statements about how he would react to some imaginary world. Probably not the right way to have a discussion.
  - ubernostrum 8y ago
    The comment was "People need to grow up", accompanied by blaming people for being offended. I do think that's wrong. And I do think having to live in a world where everyone operated by those values would quickly cure the original commenter of believing this sort of thing. In fact, I think it's a very easy way to communicate what's wrong.

craigsmansion 8y ago

> I wish I could make RMS, and you, and everyone who agrees with you, live in a sort of reverse-Kantian world, where whatever you advocate for as acceptable behavior when you do it becomes a universal law of conduct for other people to use when interacting with you. You want to transport me back to the 70's MIT AI lab? I'm so there!

p_l 8y ago
Considering the stories of the breakdown of MIT AI Lab, you might be... surprised. (No, Levy's book was not honest to the facts)
- paulmd 8y ago
  I don't know the context of this, explanation?
  - p_l 8y ago
    "Hackers: Heroes of the Computing Revolution" is probably the most common source for those who "weren't there" about AI Lab, and it paints a story of the lab being destroyed by Symbolics, proprietary software etc. - I have personally seen the meme of "AI Lab hackers got bought out" with referrals to the book itself. What a lot of people don't know is that one of the descriptions used by RMS to talk about how "AI Lab lost people", the story of how he couldn't meet people at lunch, isn't because they left AI Lab for "evil corporations". It was because a lot of people avoided RMS, especially after lawsuit often considered more crucial for the creation of GNU than the Xerox printer story (Stallman violated Symbolics-MIT source licensing deal). From better sources, I have met two AI Lab members from 1970s - one even claimed to have been RMS' supervisor back when RMS was Harvard Undergrad working part-time (and if certain war story is to be believed, is indirectly responsible for Emacs happening) - the impression left was that a lot of RMS' AI Lab contemporaries wouldn't shake hands with him since 1980s. Heard also interesting stories on RMS' mismanagement of early Hurd initiative and how it resulted in close to 0 work being done.

pydumpsterfire 8y ago

Ah, but aren't you pretty famous yourself for being just that?