4 ms·

> Again, if it is considered socially acceptable to censor pro-2A speech, we are a social regime-change away from justifying the censorship of pro-4A or 1A spee

> Again, if it is considered socially acceptable to censor pro-2A speech, we are a social regime-change away from justifying the censorship of pro-4A or 1A speech, or practically anything else. Let's say you run a discussion group in your home for recovering alcoholics, but open it to anyone who's passing by. A person enters and starts to try to convince everyone to drink more alcohol. Do you have the right to invite this person to leave? Are you censoring this person if you did so?

1787 8y ago
Discussion groups in small private spaces are a somewhat related but clearly and justifiably different issue from huge kinda-sorta-maybe-public fora like YouTube. Trying to conflate the two will probably just lead to confusion and muddle the discussion. To continue playing the analogy game, let's say you run a bible study group in your home. Somebody comes in and advocates for free (homosexual) love - do you have the right to ask this person to leave? Obviously. But what does that say about YouTube's rights? Or more importantly, half leaving aside the question of rights, about what they really should do in a robust free society?
- ucaetano 8y ago
  No, you have to define if YT is a public forum like a public square, or if it is a private community that can set it's own rules. You can't have it both ways, or pick the definition that you prefer each time. It has to be one or the other.
  - iamnothere 8y ago
    False dichotomy. It obviously isn't like either one; not a purely public forum, and not an intimate private gathering. The notion of semi-public space (shopping malls, sidewalks, right of way) has been around for a long time and is continuing to evolve. The laws and precedent on this are not fixed in place, nor should they be, especially as more of our public participation moves online.
    - ucaetano 8y ago
      Sure, and all of those spaces are free to set usage policies. So there is plenty of precedent for kicking someone out. What are you proposing? It seems that everyone comes shy of actually proposing something. Are you saying that online communities/forums should not be allowed to have and enforce a content/behavior policy?
ErikVandeWater 8y ago
The major difference between YouTube and a recovering alcoholics group in real life is that watching a YouTube video isn't compulsory. You don't have to watch it if you don't want to. If someone monopolizes the conversation at the alcoholics group - talks over others - you can't turn off your ears, or realistically physically remove them without serious effort. On YouTube, you can easily avoid videos you don't want to watch just by reading the title. If someone incorrectly titles their video to mislead people of the opposite view to view their content, I imagine that censoring that video is not problematic to anyone. Finally, it is probably a good thing that if you search a particular topic on YouTube, you will presumably get videos both in the 'pro' column and the 'con' column so you do not fall into an ideological bubble.
- ucaetano 8y ago
  You can cover your ears, and you can leave the AA and go somewhere else. But you didn't answer my question: if you create a private forum which is open to the public, can you keep out people who don't abide by the community guidelines?

1787 8y ago

Discussion groups in small private spaces are a somewhat related but clearly and justifiably different issue from huge kinda-sorta-maybe-public fora like YouTube. Trying to conflate the two will probably just lead to confusion and muddle the discussion. To continue playing the analogy game, let's say you run a bible study group in your home. Somebody comes in and advocates for free (homosexual) love - do you have the right to ask this person to leave? Obviously. But what does that say about YouTube's rights? Or more importantly, half leaving aside the question of rights, about what they really should do in a robust free society?

ucaetano 8y ago
No, you have to define if YT is a public forum like a public square, or if it is a private community that can set it's own rules. You can't have it both ways, or pick the definition that you prefer each time. It has to be one or the other.
- iamnothere 8y ago
  False dichotomy. It obviously isn't like either one; not a purely public forum, and not an intimate private gathering. The notion of semi-public space (shopping malls, sidewalks, right of way) has been around for a long time and is continuing to evolve. The laws and precedent on this are not fixed in place, nor should they be, especially as more of our public participation moves online.
  - ucaetano 8y ago
    Sure, and all of those spaces are free to set usage policies. So there is plenty of precedent for kicking someone out. What are you proposing? It seems that everyone comes shy of actually proposing something. Are you saying that online communities/forums should not be allowed to have and enforce a content/behavior policy?

ErikVandeWater 8y ago

The major difference between YouTube and a recovering alcoholics group in real life is that watching a YouTube video isn't compulsory. You don't have to watch it if you don't want to. If someone monopolizes the conversation at the alcoholics group - talks over others - you can't turn off your ears, or realistically physically remove them without serious effort. On YouTube, you can easily avoid videos you don't want to watch just by reading the title. If someone incorrectly titles their video to mislead people of the opposite view to view their content, I imagine that censoring that video is not problematic to anyone. Finally, it is probably a good thing that if you search a particular topic on YouTube, you will presumably get videos both in the 'pro' column and the 'con' column so you do not fall into an ideological bubble.

ucaetano 8y ago
You can cover your ears, and you can leave the AA and go somewhere else. But you didn't answer my question: if you create a private forum which is open to the public, can you keep out people who don't abide by the community guidelines?