5 ms·

Is this the same as pulling straight into the middle of the intersection with live traffic swirling around you on both sides then making the left after the ligh

Is this the same as pulling straight into the middle of the intersection with live traffic swirling around you on both sides then making the left after the lights have reddened and traffic has cleared?

_greim_ 8y ago
It sounds similar. I stopped doing it years ago after seeing too many close calls. But I live in an area where other people don't exactly accommodate the behavior.
maxsilver 8y ago
It sounds like the opposite of that -- letting the left turn car go before both sides move, rather than after both sides finish. The behaviour you just described is what everyone does in Michigan. The Pittsburgh left sounds friendlier, but more risk prone to people who don't expect it or respect it.
- thereisnospork 8y ago
  Correct, although the creep and go after the light is also practiced. Main reason for the Pittsburgh left's popularity is that there are a number of roads in and around the city where during rush hour it's otherwise impossible to ever make a left and have no turn lane.
  - Izkata 8y ago
    > and have no turn lane. Urgh, that's something missing from the other comments. Now it makes sense to me.
  - userbinator 8y ago
    In other words, despite the traffic lights not having an official "left turn only" phase, the traffic has naturally created one. I've seen this in China too.
  - c22 8y ago
    This happens to me sometimes, my solution is to overshoot by a block, then hook 3 right turns, rather than slow up everyone behind me or pull a daredevil left. I would hope self driving cars would be programmed to follow a strategy like mine while still accommodating daredevils by using cautious acceleration and effective collision avoidance.
vkou 8y ago
No, what you're describing sounds a hell of a lot safer. (It's also how people make left turns in Vancouver. The fact that it's illegal in Seattle infuriates me to no end.) The Pittsburgh left sounds like a recipe to get T-boned by an inattentive driver. Pulling into the intersection, and making a left turn when it is safe is a much better alternative.
- fjsolwmv 8y ago
  What's illegal? Stopping in an intersection? Or exiting the intersection on red? The light would be red on exiting the intersection unless cars are illegally entering the intersection on yellow when they should be stopping because they weren't speeding and have time to stop.
  - WillPostForFood 8y ago
    Entering an intersection on yellow isn’t illegal in Washington, California, Texas, or any state that I am aware of.
    - klibertp 8y ago
      Ah, ok, that explains it... It is illegal to enter an intersection on yellow in most of Europe, I think. The yellow light is for driving off of intersection, is what I've been taught. It's only allowed to enter the intersection if you're going really fast and the light turns when you're really close to the intersection, but even then the cops are likely to question you if they see it.
      - arrrg 8y ago
        That‘s not the case at all in Germany (most of all because you cannot even see the lights anymore once you entered the intersection since in Germany they are at the beginning of the intersection, not the opposite end). Which European country are you talking about? In driving school I was taught to generally be ready to brake when approaching a light, but to also then pick a reasonable point of no return (depending on speed, maybe a couple dozen meters before the light) beyond which I would not be braking, no matter what the light does. That way braking should never ever feel anything close to emergency braking you do when there‘s an actual unforeeen obstacle. It should always be smooth. Also, when making a left turn at an intersection in Germany you drive into the intersection and then you wait for the oncoming traffic to clear. At this point you cannot even see the lights. The only thing that is relevant for you is to wait for oncoming traffic to clear up (or if you obviously see they have stopped since the light has since turned red and have verified optimally by eye contact that you are free to go). Other traffic from left and right obviously have to wait until you have cleared the intersection even if they have a green light.
danaliv 8y ago
No, it's zipping left immediately when the light turns green and before oncoming traffic has a chance to accelerate.

_greim_ 8y ago

It sounds similar. I stopped doing it years ago after seeing too many close calls. But I live in an area where other people don't exactly accommodate the behavior.

maxsilver 8y ago

It sounds like the opposite of that -- letting the left turn car go before both sides move, rather than after both sides finish. The behaviour you just described is what everyone does in Michigan. The Pittsburgh left sounds friendlier, but more risk prone to people who don't expect it or respect it.

thereisnospork 8y ago
Correct, although the creep and go after the light is also practiced. Main reason for the Pittsburgh left's popularity is that there are a number of roads in and around the city where during rush hour it's otherwise impossible to ever make a left and have no turn lane.
- Izkata 8y ago
  > and have no turn lane. Urgh, that's something missing from the other comments. Now it makes sense to me.
- userbinator 8y ago
  In other words, despite the traffic lights not having an official "left turn only" phase, the traffic has naturally created one. I've seen this in China too.
- c22 8y ago
  This happens to me sometimes, my solution is to overshoot by a block, then hook 3 right turns, rather than slow up everyone behind me or pull a daredevil left. I would hope self driving cars would be programmed to follow a strategy like mine while still accommodating daredevils by using cautious acceleration and effective collision avoidance.

vkou 8y ago

No, what you're describing sounds a hell of a lot safer. (It's also how people make left turns in Vancouver. The fact that it's illegal in Seattle infuriates me to no end.) The Pittsburgh left sounds like a recipe to get T-boned by an inattentive driver. Pulling into the intersection, and making a left turn when it is safe is a much better alternative.

fjsolwmv 8y ago
What's illegal? Stopping in an intersection? Or exiting the intersection on red? The light would be red on exiting the intersection unless cars are illegally entering the intersection on yellow when they should be stopping because they weren't speeding and have time to stop.
- WillPostForFood 8y ago
  Entering an intersection on yellow isn’t illegal in Washington, California, Texas, or any state that I am aware of.
  - klibertp 8y ago
    Ah, ok, that explains it... It is illegal to enter an intersection on yellow in most of Europe, I think. The yellow light is for driving off of intersection, is what I've been taught. It's only allowed to enter the intersection if you're going really fast and the light turns when you're really close to the intersection, but even then the cops are likely to question you if they see it.
    - arrrg 8y ago
      That‘s not the case at all in Germany (most of all because you cannot even see the lights anymore once you entered the intersection since in Germany they are at the beginning of the intersection, not the opposite end). Which European country are you talking about? In driving school I was taught to generally be ready to brake when approaching a light, but to also then pick a reasonable point of no return (depending on speed, maybe a couple dozen meters before the light) beyond which I would not be braking, no matter what the light does. That way braking should never ever feel anything close to emergency braking you do when there‘s an actual unforeeen obstacle. It should always be smooth. Also, when making a left turn at an intersection in Germany you drive into the intersection and then you wait for the oncoming traffic to clear. At this point you cannot even see the lights. The only thing that is relevant for you is to wait for oncoming traffic to clear up (or if you obviously see they have stopped since the light has since turned red and have verified optimally by eye contact that you are free to go). Other traffic from left and right obviously have to wait until you have cleared the intersection even if they have a green light.

danaliv 8y ago

No, it's zipping left immediately when the light turns green and before oncoming traffic has a chance to accelerate.