5 ms·

I don't really see how making them buy or use Chromebooks is more dystopian than compelling them to purchase or use anything else. That's just how standardizati

I don't really see how making them buy or use Chromebooks is more dystopian than compelling them to purchase or use anything else. That's just how standardization works, whether it's on the Office suite, a certain textbook, or a Chromebook. It's easy to see why the schools want them using Chromebooks. They're easy to use, low maintenance, and compatible with the Google tools that they presumably want to use in the whole district. Those are all good reasons to me.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago
Using Microsoft Office doesn't send your data to a Google server. Using Google Docs does. Chromebooks aren't significantly lower maintenance than any other managed fleet of computers. Windows PCs can be quickly and easily imaged and configured just like a Chromebook. And the physical maintenance is about the same: Cheap trash laptops they give students tend to break a lot.
- wilsonnb 8y ago
  I personally think that managing Chromebooks is at least a little easier than other computers, but I see your point that Windows isn't that much worse. There's something to be said for Chromebook specs, though. I still have a Samsung Chromebook with a Samsung ARM processor from 2012 and 2GB ram. Using Windows on that machine would be painful. ChromeOS ain't gonna break any speed records but it's actually quite usable still. Also, they should be using G Suite for education which doesn't serve ads and don't use user data for ad profiles. The privacy notice says that they collect: - device information, such as the hardware model, operating system version, unique device identifiers, and mobile network information including phone number of the user - log information, including details of how a user used our service, device event information, and the user's Internet protocol (IP) address - location information, as determined by various technologies including IP address, GPS, and other sensors - unique application numbers, such as application version number - cookies or similar technologies which are used to collect and store information about a browser or device, such as preferred language and other settings None of that seems egregious to me. Plus, Office collects information about you too. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/compat/data-that-the-telemetry-agent-collects-in-office https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/compat/data-th... https://gsuite.google.com/terms/education_privacy.html https://gsuite.google.com/terms/education_privacy.html
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    If I type in a Word document, the data is on the computer. If I type in a Google Doc, the data is on Google's servers. There is no equivalency here. Sure, Google can claim that they won't use it for specific purposes, but they can still use it for a lot of other things, and most crucially, they can change their policy at any time.
    - wilsonnb 8y ago
      That is true. They do encrypt it all at rest, though. Plus they are audited regularly by third parties. I actually use OneDrive for all of my Microsoft Office files even though I'm using the desktop suite, so keeping the document data in the cloud is far more of a feature in my eyes than an issue.
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      But it makes it so kids can use whatever machine each day. They just log in and everything is there.
      - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
        The same capability exists on more conventional online classwork systems that don't require sending data to Google's servers. And in reality, this doesn't even become an issue much in practice: Google heavily encourages the one-for-one model, where each student gets their own Chromebook. They make a lot more money on licensing that way.
        jacksmith21006 8y ago
        Google shared yesterday that CBs grew 50% YoY. So the CB way is definitely working. I am in the US and K12 is completely dominated by CBs. Personally I just love what Google has done for K12. I have 8 kids and all their info all liked to a Google Sheet and able to drill down with each kid to whatever detail I want. But the biggest thing Google brought is analytics. Never made sense to match up kids and teachers by gut. Google is revolutionizing the use of technology in the classroom. I have my doubts we will see Apple or MS come back in the classroom. Both owned the class room for decades and very quickly Google now completely dominates.
- jacksmith21006 8y ago
  Must not manage several classrooms of machines. Chromebooks is much cheaper in terms of time.
  - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
    This isn't really accurate if you're aware of all of your options for working with Windows machines. You can freshly deploy a Windows image in a handful of minutes using any number of first or third party tools. Windows machines with SSDs (like most Chromebooks) can be refreshed and redeployed similarly quickly. Unfortunately, people can make erroneous assumptions based on experience with older or poorly-provisioned hardware.
    - jacksmith21006 8y ago
      You have very little time in the classroom and CBs allow you to maximize the time and why we see CBs now having 60% share in the US of K12. Then the other side just a lot easier to manage.
    - shaftway 8y ago
      These comments suggest "just" setting up non-cloud solutions without addressing any of the drawbacks of these approaches. - Schools rarely have the resources or technical expertise to maintain something like roaming profiles. - If students have issues with their machine they are essentially locked out of their files (the alternative with Chromebooks and cloud solutions is to just use a different machine, which most students have available in some form). - Students will lose files when the machine is re-imaged, unless they've synced recently (with Chromebooks files are usually synced shortly after going online). - Syncing files with a roaming profile usually requires VPN access which is even more infrastructure to set up, maintain, teach students about etc. - Re-imaging machines is a far more common experience with Windows than it is on a Chromebook, particularly with nosy kids messing with things. - Data exfiltration is a much more serious risk with machine in the wild like this than it is on a cloud service (most kids have less-than-perfect opsec) Look, ultimately if you're against using Google services like Drive, Classroom, etc. that's fine. Put up realistic alternatives that work in a modern world. But suggesting that students move to Windows and Office to accomplish these goals smacks of it-was-good-enough-for-us-ism.

ocdtrekkie 8y ago

Using Microsoft Office doesn't send your data to a Google server. Using Google Docs does. Chromebooks aren't significantly lower maintenance than any other managed fleet of computers. Windows PCs can be quickly and easily imaged and configured just like a Chromebook. And the physical maintenance is about the same: Cheap trash laptops they give students tend to break a lot.

wilsonnb 8y ago
I personally think that managing Chromebooks is at least a little easier than other computers, but I see your point that Windows isn't that much worse. There's something to be said for Chromebook specs, though. I still have a Samsung Chromebook with a Samsung ARM processor from 2012 and 2GB ram. Using Windows on that machine would be painful. ChromeOS ain't gonna break any speed records but it's actually quite usable still. Also, they should be using G Suite for education which doesn't serve ads and don't use user data for ad profiles. The privacy notice says that they collect: - device information, such as the hardware model, operating system version, unique device identifiers, and mobile network information including phone number of the user - log information, including details of how a user used our service, device event information, and the user's Internet protocol (IP) address - location information, as determined by various technologies including IP address, GPS, and other sensors - unique application numbers, such as application version number - cookies or similar technologies which are used to collect and store information about a browser or device, such as preferred language and other settings None of that seems egregious to me. Plus, Office collects information about you too. https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/compat/data-that-the-telemetry-agent-collects-in-office https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/deployoffice/compat/data-th... https://gsuite.google.com/terms/education_privacy.html https://gsuite.google.com/terms/education_privacy.html
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  If I type in a Word document, the data is on the computer. If I type in a Google Doc, the data is on Google's servers. There is no equivalency here. Sure, Google can claim that they won't use it for specific purposes, but they can still use it for a lot of other things, and most crucially, they can change their policy at any time.
  - wilsonnb 8y ago
    That is true. They do encrypt it all at rest, though. Plus they are audited regularly by third parties. I actually use OneDrive for all of my Microsoft Office files even though I'm using the desktop suite, so keeping the document data in the cloud is far more of a feature in my eyes than an issue.
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    But it makes it so kids can use whatever machine each day. They just log in and everything is there.
    - ocdtrekkie 8y ago
      The same capability exists on more conventional online classwork systems that don't require sending data to Google's servers. And in reality, this doesn't even become an issue much in practice: Google heavily encourages the one-for-one model, where each student gets their own Chromebook. They make a lot more money on licensing that way.
      - jacksmith21006 8y ago
        Google shared yesterday that CBs grew 50% YoY. So the CB way is definitely working. I am in the US and K12 is completely dominated by CBs. Personally I just love what Google has done for K12. I have 8 kids and all their info all liked to a Google Sheet and able to drill down with each kid to whatever detail I want. But the biggest thing Google brought is analytics. Never made sense to match up kids and teachers by gut. Google is revolutionizing the use of technology in the classroom. I have my doubts we will see Apple or MS come back in the classroom. Both owned the class room for decades and very quickly Google now completely dominates.
jacksmith21006 8y ago
Must not manage several classrooms of machines. Chromebooks is much cheaper in terms of time.
- ocdtrekkie 8y ago
  This isn't really accurate if you're aware of all of your options for working with Windows machines. You can freshly deploy a Windows image in a handful of minutes using any number of first or third party tools. Windows machines with SSDs (like most Chromebooks) can be refreshed and redeployed similarly quickly. Unfortunately, people can make erroneous assumptions based on experience with older or poorly-provisioned hardware.
  - jacksmith21006 8y ago
    You have very little time in the classroom and CBs allow you to maximize the time and why we see CBs now having 60% share in the US of K12. Then the other side just a lot easier to manage.
  - shaftway 8y ago
    These comments suggest "just" setting up non-cloud solutions without addressing any of the drawbacks of these approaches. - Schools rarely have the resources or technical expertise to maintain something like roaming profiles. - If students have issues with their machine they are essentially locked out of their files (the alternative with Chromebooks and cloud solutions is to just use a different machine, which most students have available in some form). - Students will lose files when the machine is re-imaged, unless they've synced recently (with Chromebooks files are usually synced shortly after going online). - Syncing files with a roaming profile usually requires VPN access which is even more infrastructure to set up, maintain, teach students about etc. - Re-imaging machines is a far more common experience with Windows than it is on a Chromebook, particularly with nosy kids messing with things. - Data exfiltration is a much more serious risk with machine in the wild like this than it is on a cloud service (most kids have less-than-perfect opsec) Look, ultimately if you're against using Google services like Drive, Classroom, etc. that's fine. Put up realistic alternatives that work in a modern world. But suggesting that students move to Windows and Office to accomplish these goals smacks of it-was-good-enough-for-us-ism.