4 ms·

I can see how such a story is against the 'right/racist' narrative as they think race has a major influence on intelligence, but why doesn't it fit the 'left' n

by JepZ 8y ago

I can see how such a story is against the 'right/racist' narrative as they think race has a major influence on intelligence, but why doesn't it fit the 'left' narrative which seems to categorize humans based on their social class?

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
lev99 8y ago
You could frame it as a class issue, but democrats have a much stronger hold over the African American voting population than the poor population. So it's better for democrats keep to framing conversations around race instead of class, to fire up their base.
- okreallywtf 8y ago
  I don't think the democratic party has a hold over the African American voting block in so much as it has been the only real choice for them for the last 40 or 50 years (unless you have Stockholm syndrome that is). Couple that with the increase in leadership roles and overall candidates and the democratic party is becoming more representative by the day. This results in more and better legislation targeting the issues of black Americans. Contrast that with the republican party, how well are poor whites represented in the party (aside from near-constant lip service)?
  - dzdt 8y ago
    The republican party platform combines the roughly orthogonal financial interests of the wealthy and moral interests of white evangelicals. Some of the key demands of poor whites are addressed within that latter category.
stcredzero 8y ago
I can see how such a story is against the 'right/racist' narrative It's not against the narrative of the right in general. The US political right likes the narrative of the early 20th century. It's only the Far Right extreme which doesn't like it for going against the idea that race has a major influence on intelligence. why doesn't it fit the 'left' narrative which seems to categorize humans based on their social class? Well, for one thing, to accept it is to give credence to IQ and intelligence testing. Once that is done, then you have to give credence to a lot of other inconvenient studies. Also, it's part of a larger picture that supports the idea of assimilation over cultural isolation. It's also pro-military.
- croon 8y ago
  > Well, for one thing, to accept it is to give credence to IQ and intelligence testing. Once that is done, then you have to give credence to a lot of other inconvenient studies. Also, it's part of a larger picture that supports the idea of assimilation over cultural isolation. It's also pro-military. It doesn't really matter whether you give credence to IQ testing or not. If you do: It's clear that african americans have been marginalized, seeing as the results are separate from ethnicity as proven by the earlier study. If you don't: Square one of your given ideologies. > It's not against the narrative of the right in general. The US political right likes the narrative of the early 20th century. It's only the Far Right extreme which doesn't like it for going against the idea that race has a major influence on intelligence. It's against the narrative of the right as their platform is behind almost all of the marginalization of african americans.
  - stcredzero 8y ago
    It doesn't really matter whether you give credence to IQ testing or not. Oh yes, it does. It points the finger at whose policies are to blame for the reversal of improving fortunes for certain communities in the US. If you do: It's clear that african americans have been marginalized, seeing as the results are separate from ethnicity as proven by the earlier study. If you study immigrant and ethnically/culturally separate communities all around the world and all across history, two clear patterns show through. 1) Often a minority group's leaders keep their group culturally isolated to keep their local power. 2) Economic success of a minority group is linked to the degree of assimilation and integration into economic and cultural life of the surrounding culture. The pattern across history is often that groups marginalize themselves. It's against the narrative of the right as their platform is behind almost all of the marginalization of african americans. Many african americans would disagree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EM_-QjAh8k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EM_-QjAh8k
evincarofautumn 8y ago
Because few social liberals would take the risk of coming out and saying “Black people in the US have lower IQ on average”, even though what it’s really saying is “Black people are often victims of a class divide, rooted in racism, that results in economic and everyday stress that causes lower intelligence”. It sounds racist to merely present the problem, going against the “all people are created equal” narrative because intelligence is viewed as innate, rather than something that can be developed (or harmed). So they fail to acknowledge the problem, which perpetuates the problem. ETA: Unless, of course, you come at it from another angle that doesn’t acknowledge the race issues but tries to solve the resulting problems—“schools need funding”, “kids need school lunches”, “careless gentrification is harmful”, &c.
nostromo 8y ago
Talking about IQ among ethinicities is verboten on the left. It’s also axiomatic on the left that all cultures are equally effective at raising successful, healthy children. The German study suggests that culture matters, which counters this axiom.
- Sawamara 8y ago
  It is "verboten" (lol) on the left because it has nothing to do with your skin color, and it has everything to do with the enviroment you grow up in.
  - vancan1ty 8y ago
    I don't get the joke. The truth is probably that genetics do play a role (perhaps small though) in intelligence, as it does with other measures like height or bone marrow donor compatibility.
    - Sawamara 8y ago
      Sure, but you can easily silence most whites who want to feel superior with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence However, even the above can just be used to maintain the tinfoil conspiracy theory about jews running the world. So.... you cant get any useful conclusion with this data, even if you use the data as it is (i.e. to say "on average", and never use it to guess a certain person's intelligence based on ethnicity). Also, the genes responsible for skin color,afaik, has nothing to do with the intelligence of that human. Otherwise, there would literally be a cap on iq for whiter or darker skinned humans. But there is not, any ethnicity can produce stupid individuals and geniuses as well.
- dragonwriter 8y ago
  > Talking about IQ among ethinicities is verboten on the left. No, it's not. In fact, both results of studies showing such differences and the factors likely producing them are frequent matters of discussion on the left. > It’s also axiomatic on the left that all cultures are equally effective at raising successful, healthy children. Also not true, though the left (unlike the right) is unlikely to limit it's consideration of “culture” to a narrow set of values that parents of certain ethnic backgrounds are presumed to have or not have, and consider the sources of culture influences much more broadly than the right does. > The German study suggests that culture matters, It is quite consistent with the idea that physical and broad social context matters, and that broad aspects of the physical context to which various groups are selectively subjected, as well as elements of the broad US social context, are particularly harmful to and preserve the disadvantage of various historically disadvantaged groups is actually more widely accepted as established fact on the left than the things you mislabel as axiomatic.

by JepZ 8y ago

deleted 8y ago

[deleted]

lev99 8y ago

You could frame it as a class issue, but democrats have a much stronger hold over the African American voting population than the poor population. So it's better for democrats keep to framing conversations around race instead of class, to fire up their base.

okreallywtf 8y ago
I don't think the democratic party has a hold over the African American voting block in so much as it has been the only real choice for them for the last 40 or 50 years (unless you have Stockholm syndrome that is). Couple that with the increase in leadership roles and overall candidates and the democratic party is becoming more representative by the day. This results in more and better legislation targeting the issues of black Americans. Contrast that with the republican party, how well are poor whites represented in the party (aside from near-constant lip service)?
- dzdt 8y ago
  The republican party platform combines the roughly orthogonal financial interests of the wealthy and moral interests of white evangelicals. Some of the key demands of poor whites are addressed within that latter category.

stcredzero 8y ago

I can see how such a story is against the 'right/racist' narrative It's not against the narrative of the right in general. The US political right likes the narrative of the early 20th century. It's only the Far Right extreme which doesn't like it for going against the idea that race has a major influence on intelligence. why doesn't it fit the 'left' narrative which seems to categorize humans based on their social class? Well, for one thing, to accept it is to give credence to IQ and intelligence testing. Once that is done, then you have to give credence to a lot of other inconvenient studies. Also, it's part of a larger picture that supports the idea of assimilation over cultural isolation. It's also pro-military.

croon 8y ago
> Well, for one thing, to accept it is to give credence to IQ and intelligence testing. Once that is done, then you have to give credence to a lot of other inconvenient studies. Also, it's part of a larger picture that supports the idea of assimilation over cultural isolation. It's also pro-military. It doesn't really matter whether you give credence to IQ testing or not. If you do: It's clear that african americans have been marginalized, seeing as the results are separate from ethnicity as proven by the earlier study. If you don't: Square one of your given ideologies. > It's not against the narrative of the right in general. The US political right likes the narrative of the early 20th century. It's only the Far Right extreme which doesn't like it for going against the idea that race has a major influence on intelligence. It's against the narrative of the right as their platform is behind almost all of the marginalization of african americans.
- stcredzero 8y ago
  It doesn't really matter whether you give credence to IQ testing or not. Oh yes, it does. It points the finger at whose policies are to blame for the reversal of improving fortunes for certain communities in the US. If you do: It's clear that african americans have been marginalized, seeing as the results are separate from ethnicity as proven by the earlier study. If you study immigrant and ethnically/culturally separate communities all around the world and all across history, two clear patterns show through. 1) Often a minority group's leaders keep their group culturally isolated to keep their local power. 2) Economic success of a minority group is linked to the degree of assimilation and integration into economic and cultural life of the surrounding culture. The pattern across history is often that groups marginalize themselves. It's against the narrative of the right as their platform is behind almost all of the marginalization of african americans. Many african americans would disagree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EM_-QjAh8k https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1EM_-QjAh8k

evincarofautumn 8y ago

Because few social liberals would take the risk of coming out and saying “Black people in the US have lower IQ on average”, even though what it’s really saying is “Black people are often victims of a class divide, rooted in racism, that results in economic and everyday stress that causes lower intelligence”. It sounds racist to merely present the problem, going against the “all people are created equal” narrative because intelligence is viewed as innate, rather than something that can be developed (or harmed). So they fail to acknowledge the problem, which perpetuates the problem. ETA: Unless, of course, you come at it from another angle that doesn’t acknowledge the race issues but tries to solve the resulting problems—“schools need funding”, “kids need school lunches”, “careless gentrification is harmful”, &c.

nostromo 8y ago

Talking about IQ among ethinicities is verboten on the left. It’s also axiomatic on the left that all cultures are equally effective at raising successful, healthy children. The German study suggests that culture matters, which counters this axiom.

Sawamara 8y ago
It is "verboten" (lol) on the left because it has nothing to do with your skin color, and it has everything to do with the enviroment you grow up in.
- vancan1ty 8y ago
  I don't get the joke. The truth is probably that genetics do play a role (perhaps small though) in intelligence, as it does with other measures like height or bone marrow donor compatibility.
  - Sawamara 8y ago
    Sure, but you can easily silence most whites who want to feel superior with this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkenazi_Jewish_intelligence However, even the above can just be used to maintain the tinfoil conspiracy theory about jews running the world. So.... you cant get any useful conclusion with this data, even if you use the data as it is (i.e. to say "on average", and never use it to guess a certain person's intelligence based on ethnicity). Also, the genes responsible for skin color,afaik, has nothing to do with the intelligence of that human. Otherwise, there would literally be a cap on iq for whiter or darker skinned humans. But there is not, any ethnicity can produce stupid individuals and geniuses as well.
dragonwriter 8y ago
> Talking about IQ among ethinicities is verboten on the left. No, it's not. In fact, both results of studies showing such differences and the factors likely producing them are frequent matters of discussion on the left. > It’s also axiomatic on the left that all cultures are equally effective at raising successful, healthy children. Also not true, though the left (unlike the right) is unlikely to limit it's consideration of “culture” to a narrow set of values that parents of certain ethnic backgrounds are presumed to have or not have, and consider the sources of culture influences much more broadly than the right does. > The German study suggests that culture matters, It is quite consistent with the idea that physical and broad social context matters, and that broad aspects of the physical context to which various groups are selectively subjected, as well as elements of the broad US social context, are particularly harmful to and preserve the disadvantage of various historically disadvantaged groups is actually more widely accepted as established fact on the left than the things you mislabel as axiomatic.