6 ms·

Operation Ivy Bells

98 points by montrose 8y ago

matthewmcg 8y ago
Some of these missions are described (in a very suspenseful way) in the book Blind Man's Bluff. What was interesting to me is that the DSRV[1] program provided both a cover story, equipment, and funds that could be secretly appropriated for these missions. According to the author, the DSRV was created by the Navy to salvage (heh) its reputation after the loss of the USS Thresher.[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-submergence_rescue_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-submergence_rescue_vehicl... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)
- otp124 8y ago
  Ah, you beat me to referencing the book! The Soviets discovered one of these Sea of Okhotsk tap pods, and interestingly enough it had printed on it "Property of the United States Government". More info here for those that don't want to read the book: https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/08/us/a-tale-of-daring-american-submarine-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/08/us/a-tale-of-daring-ameri... Edit: The pod ended up on display in the Ministry of Security's museum in Moscow.
  - matthewmcg 8y ago
    Good article. And of course the obligatory Glomar[1] response from the Navy when asked for comment—“we can neither confirm nor deny.” That legal phrase has an interesting undersea pedigree as well.[2] [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response [2]: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/18/549535352/how-the-cia-found-a-soviet-sub-without-the-soviets-knowing https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/18/549535352/...
parvenu74 8y ago
And the legacy of those days continues with the USS Jimmy Carter... very interesting things that boat's "multi-mission platform" can achieve. :-) https://warisboring.com/secretive-u-s-navy-submarine-went-on-a-dangerous-mission/ https://warisboring.com/secretive-u-s-navy-submarine-went-on...
rdtsc 8y ago
> He [Pelton] reportedly received $35,000 from the KGB for the intelligence he provided from 1980 to 1983, and for the intelligence on the Operation Ivy Bells, the KGB gave him $5,000. Spend $40k to blow a multi million (billion?) dollar operation. That's a pretty good return on investment for the KGB. > It remains unclear why it took the Soviets so long, although a plausible explanation is that it was used to feed disinformation to U.S. defense intelligence.[original research?] Reading one of the memoirs of Victor Cherkashin, an ex-KGB officer they were certainly fond of running double agents and feeding disinformation in the process. Well I guess that's a standard spy tactic I suppose. Another reason was probably to not betray Pelton. Also Cherkashin was working in the Russian Embassy in DC at the time and he recalls the story in his book. After Pelton walked in and was debriefed, they suspected he was probably followed. So they dressed him as a delivery/service person, shoved him into a van and drove away. Apparently it worked because FBI was unable to follow and discover him. He was found later, when he was betrayed by a defector.
- ethbro 8y ago
  Remember that was $40k... but presumably not in Soviet rubles. For closed economies (e.g. the Soviet Bloc), foreign reserves were non-trivial to acquire. That said, it's still a bargain. But that's why every country has spies!
  - rdl 8y ago
    They had oil and diamonds. I don't think lack of foreign currency in those amounts ever really limited what Soviet intelligence could do. What has always amazed me is how trivially cheaply most treason is paid for; it's almost always ego driven or blackmail driven, not outright "cash for secrets".
    - dingaling 8y ago
      > They had oil and diamonds And titanium, lots of which they inadvertently sold to CIA front-companies for use on the A-12 / SR-71. When NASA started to scrap a warehouseful of 71 spares, that included many tons of Soviet titanium bar stock which the Air Force whisked off to Tinker AFB for future use.
Malic 8y ago
A tip of the hat is necessary to John Piña Craven (deceased), the Chief Scientist of the US Navy Special Project Office at the time. He made mention of his days on the Mississippi River and the occasional "Underwater cable - Do not drag anchor" signs that dot the riverside. When asked, "What? You mean we should look for signs that say 'Underwater cable - Do not drag anchor' written in Russian?" His answer was pretty much "Yes, that's exactly what we should do." Craven was a colorful character and worth anyone's time to look up more on his contributions. I'll second the recommendation to the book "Blind Man's Bluff."
sizzzzlerz 8y ago
Years ago, I wrote software for what was to be the next generation of Ivy Bells. I was responsible for the real-time operating system and the time/scheduling software. The previous systems had all been coded in 68000 assembler. We were using what was a relatively new language at the time called C. After my tasks were completed, I moved on to a new job and lost contact with the program. It was some years later that I heard about the disclosure but I've always wondered what happened to the system we were building. I imagine it's in that big warehouse where the ark of the covenant is kept.
- nevster 8y ago
  And this is why I love Hacker news
- bmer 8y ago
  How did you know it was for Ivy Bells though? The Wiki article describes the huge amount of secrecy around the project; so why did they trust you/your co-workers?
  - dfsegoat 8y ago
    It's called need to know: If you read "Taking of K-129" - about a related - but even more secret op, you'll find countless examples of individual contractors who had to be fully cleared into the program because they were smart enough to "connect the dots". The result there is they get briefed/cleared in, rather than kept on the outside where their curiosity might blow things up.
mrsteveman1 8y ago
> Eventually, more taps were installed on Soviet lines in other parts of the world, with more advanced instruments built by AT&T's Bell Laboratories that were nuclear-powered and could store a year's worth of data. I assume they're referring to an RTG[1], where heat is generated by natural decay. Earlier the article specifically mentions the storage medium being tape, and that they were replaced on a monthly basis. Perhaps the larger capacity versions were also tape? Was that the only realistic option at the time in such a situation, deep underwater with a requirement for large storage capacity? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...
ggm 8y ago
Did knowledge of the leaks in cables lead to advances in cryptography?
- jlgaddis 8y ago
  It certainly did in the latter half of 2013.
tlb 8y ago
60 years earlier, at the outbreak of WWI, Britain cut all of Germany's undersea cables [0], except one that went through Britain. So the Germans had to use radio or route through Britain, which could be intercepted and decrypted [1, 2]. Less subtle than tapping, but effective. [0] http://blogs.mhs.ox.ac.uk/innovatingincombat/files/2013/03/Innovating-in-Combat-educational-resources-telegraph-cable-draft-1.pdf http://blogs.mhs.ox.ac.uk/innovatingincombat/files/2013/03/I... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_40 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_40 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable#British_dominance_of_early_cable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable...
- shawn 8y ago
  One thing I've wondered about history: There are dozens of stories of the brilliance of allied decryption efforts, but very few about the German or Japanese. Were they that far behind us?
  - rdl 8y ago
    We assumed they read a bunch of our lower tier codes, and the Germans (specifically Deutsche Afrika Korps) completely dominated in radio direction finding and traffic analysis, which was in many ways more important than decrypts (and largely considered more sensitive from an ongoing security perspective after the war, so not as publicized.) Nachrichten-Fern-Aufkl-Kp 621 and Hauptmann Alfred Seebohm were pivotal for DAK actions. There were some similar units on other fronts, but this one was particularly well documented.
  - donarb 8y ago
    The US used "code talkers" in both world wars. Code talkers were Native Americans recruited to pass messages in their ancestral languages. The Germans became aware of code talkers during WWI and afterwards sent people to the US to learn the native languages. This proved to be difficult as there too many dialects to learn them all. During WWII, code talkers were used much more against the Japanese and less in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker
  - 8y ago
NamTaf 8y ago
"The Seawolf was almost lost during one of these missions—it was stranded on the bottom after a storm and almost had to use its self-destruct charges to scuttle the ship with her crew." Does this imply that they made the whole crew commit suicide via the charges?
- pietroglyph 8y ago
  It seems to imply that they would have... I suppose it's just like the risk of getting shot and dying for one's country.
- culturestate 8y ago
  This is the kind of risk that submariners willingly accept...they're a special group.
V-2 8y ago
Apparently Ronald Pelton (the man who spilled the beans to the Soviets) "was tried and convicted of espionage in 1986 and sentenced to three concurrent life sentences[3] and a $100 fine". My question is, who fines you a hundred bucks after sentencing you for life 3 times over (plus 10 years on the top of that, as was the case) :)
- adamsea 8y ago
  Also it seems like a bargain if the NSA or CIA would monitor their employees bank accounts and, if someone is running low on money, give them some cash and then ease them into a role where they no longer have access to secrets, and can be watched.
  - neoeldex 8y ago
    That would be socialist of the USA ;)
cruftyold 8y ago
Tangenitally, for those of you not from the bay area music scene, this was the inspiration for a seminal Berkeley political ska/punk band named Operation Ivy. OpIvy broke-up in '89, then reformed (with a line-up change) to become Rancid. They are considered a major inspiration for the 3rd-wave ska/pop-punk revival, including bands suchas Reel Big Fish, The Aquabats, and last but not least, Green Day. During Bubble 1.0, every bay-area tech office had at least one token Punk wearing an OpIvy t-shirt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_(band) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_(band)

98 points by montrose 8y ago

Some of these missions are described (in a very suspenseful way) in the book Blind Man's Bluff. What was interesting to me is that the DSRV[1] program provided both a cover story, equipment, and funds that could be secretly appropriated for these missions. According to the author, the DSRV was created by the Navy to salvage (heh) its reputation after the loss of the USS Thresher.[2] [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-submergence_rescue_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deep-submergence_rescue_vehicl... [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Thresher_(SSN-593)

otp124 8y ago
Ah, you beat me to referencing the book! The Soviets discovered one of these Sea of Okhotsk tap pods, and interestingly enough it had printed on it "Property of the United States Government". More info here for those that don't want to read the book: https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/08/us/a-tale-of-daring-american-submarine-espionage.html https://www.nytimes.com/1998/11/08/us/a-tale-of-daring-ameri... Edit: The pod ended up on display in the Ministry of Security's museum in Moscow.
- matthewmcg 8y ago
  Good article. And of course the obligatory Glomar[1] response from the Navy when asked for comment—“we can neither confirm nor deny.” That legal phrase has an interesting undersea pedigree as well.[2] [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glomar_response [2]: https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/18/549535352/how-the-cia-found-a-soviet-sub-without-the-soviets-knowing https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2017/09/18/549535352/...

parvenu74 8y ago

And the legacy of those days continues with the USS Jimmy Carter... very interesting things that boat's "multi-mission platform" can achieve. :-) https://warisboring.com/secretive-u-s-navy-submarine-went-on-a-dangerous-mission/ https://warisboring.com/secretive-u-s-navy-submarine-went-on...

rdtsc 8y ago

> He [Pelton] reportedly received $35,000 from the KGB for the intelligence he provided from 1980 to 1983, and for the intelligence on the Operation Ivy Bells, the KGB gave him $5,000. Spend $40k to blow a multi million (billion?) dollar operation. That's a pretty good return on investment for the KGB. > It remains unclear why it took the Soviets so long, although a plausible explanation is that it was used to feed disinformation to U.S. defense intelligence.[original research?] Reading one of the memoirs of Victor Cherkashin, an ex-KGB officer they were certainly fond of running double agents and feeding disinformation in the process. Well I guess that's a standard spy tactic I suppose. Another reason was probably to not betray Pelton. Also Cherkashin was working in the Russian Embassy in DC at the time and he recalls the story in his book. After Pelton walked in and was debriefed, they suspected he was probably followed. So they dressed him as a delivery/service person, shoved him into a van and drove away. Apparently it worked because FBI was unable to follow and discover him. He was found later, when he was betrayed by a defector.

ethbro 8y ago
Remember that was $40k... but presumably not in Soviet rubles. For closed economies (e.g. the Soviet Bloc), foreign reserves were non-trivial to acquire. That said, it's still a bargain. But that's why every country has spies!
- rdl 8y ago
  They had oil and diamonds. I don't think lack of foreign currency in those amounts ever really limited what Soviet intelligence could do. What has always amazed me is how trivially cheaply most treason is paid for; it's almost always ego driven or blackmail driven, not outright "cash for secrets".
  - dingaling 8y ago
    > They had oil and diamonds And titanium, lots of which they inadvertently sold to CIA front-companies for use on the A-12 / SR-71. When NASA started to scrap a warehouseful of 71 spares, that included many tons of Soviet titanium bar stock which the Air Force whisked off to Tinker AFB for future use.

Malic 8y ago

A tip of the hat is necessary to John Piña Craven (deceased), the Chief Scientist of the US Navy Special Project Office at the time. He made mention of his days on the Mississippi River and the occasional "Underwater cable - Do not drag anchor" signs that dot the riverside. When asked, "What? You mean we should look for signs that say 'Underwater cable - Do not drag anchor' written in Russian?" His answer was pretty much "Yes, that's exactly what we should do." Craven was a colorful character and worth anyone's time to look up more on his contributions. I'll second the recommendation to the book "Blind Man's Bluff."

sizzzzlerz 8y ago

Years ago, I wrote software for what was to be the next generation of Ivy Bells. I was responsible for the real-time operating system and the time/scheduling software. The previous systems had all been coded in 68000 assembler. We were using what was a relatively new language at the time called C. After my tasks were completed, I moved on to a new job and lost contact with the program. It was some years later that I heard about the disclosure but I've always wondered what happened to the system we were building. I imagine it's in that big warehouse where the ark of the covenant is kept.

nevster 8y ago
And this is why I love Hacker news
bmer 8y ago
How did you know it was for Ivy Bells though? The Wiki article describes the huge amount of secrecy around the project; so why did they trust you/your co-workers?
- dfsegoat 8y ago
  It's called need to know: If you read "Taking of K-129" - about a related - but even more secret op, you'll find countless examples of individual contractors who had to be fully cleared into the program because they were smart enough to "connect the dots". The result there is they get briefed/cleared in, rather than kept on the outside where their curiosity might blow things up.

mrsteveman1 8y ago

> Eventually, more taps were installed on Soviet lines in other parts of the world, with more advanced instruments built by AT&T's Bell Laboratories that were nuclear-powered and could store a year's worth of data. I assume they're referring to an RTG[1], where heat is generated by natural decay. Earlier the article specifically mentions the storage medium being tape, and that they were replaced on a monthly basis. Perhaps the larger capacity versions were also tape? Was that the only realistic option at the time in such a situation, deep underwater with a requirement for large storage capacity? [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_generator https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radioisotope_thermoelectric_ge...

ggm 8y ago

Did knowledge of the leaks in cables lead to advances in cryptography?

jlgaddis 8y ago
It certainly did in the latter half of 2013.

tlb 8y ago

60 years earlier, at the outbreak of WWI, Britain cut all of Germany's undersea cables [0], except one that went through Britain. So the Germans had to use radio or route through Britain, which could be intercepted and decrypted [1, 2]. Less subtle than tapping, but effective. [0] http://blogs.mhs.ox.ac.uk/innovatingincombat/files/2013/03/Innovating-in-Combat-educational-resources-telegraph-cable-draft-1.pdf http://blogs.mhs.ox.ac.uk/innovatingincombat/files/2013/03/I... [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_40 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_40 [2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable#British_dominance_of_early_cable https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submarine_communications_cable...

shawn 8y ago
One thing I've wondered about history: There are dozens of stories of the brilliance of allied decryption efforts, but very few about the German or Japanese. Were they that far behind us?
- rdl 8y ago
  We assumed they read a bunch of our lower tier codes, and the Germans (specifically Deutsche Afrika Korps) completely dominated in radio direction finding and traffic analysis, which was in many ways more important than decrypts (and largely considered more sensitive from an ongoing security perspective after the war, so not as publicized.) Nachrichten-Fern-Aufkl-Kp 621 and Hauptmann Alfred Seebohm were pivotal for DAK actions. There were some similar units on other fronts, but this one was particularly well documented.
- donarb 8y ago
  The US used "code talkers" in both world wars. Code talkers were Native Americans recruited to pass messages in their ancestral languages. The Germans became aware of code talkers during WWI and afterwards sent people to the US to learn the native languages. This proved to be difficult as there too many dialects to learn them all. During WWII, code talkers were used much more against the Japanese and less in Europe. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Code_talker
- 8y ago

NamTaf 8y ago

"The Seawolf was almost lost during one of these missions—it was stranded on the bottom after a storm and almost had to use its self-destruct charges to scuttle the ship with her crew." Does this imply that they made the whole crew commit suicide via the charges?

pietroglyph 8y ago
It seems to imply that they would have... I suppose it's just like the risk of getting shot and dying for one's country.
culturestate 8y ago
This is the kind of risk that submariners willingly accept...they're a special group.

V-2 8y ago

Apparently Ronald Pelton (the man who spilled the beans to the Soviets) "was tried and convicted of espionage in 1986 and sentenced to three concurrent life sentences[3] and a $100 fine". My question is, who fines you a hundred bucks after sentencing you for life 3 times over (plus 10 years on the top of that, as was the case) :)

adamsea 8y ago
Also it seems like a bargain if the NSA or CIA would monitor their employees bank accounts and, if someone is running low on money, give them some cash and then ease them into a role where they no longer have access to secrets, and can be watched.
- neoeldex 8y ago
  That would be socialist of the USA ;)

cruftyold 8y ago

Tangenitally, for those of you not from the bay area music scene, this was the inspiration for a seminal Berkeley political ska/punk band named Operation Ivy. OpIvy broke-up in '89, then reformed (with a line-up change) to become Rancid. They are considered a major inspiration for the 3rd-wave ska/pop-punk revival, including bands suchas Reel Big Fish, The Aquabats, and last but not least, Green Day. During Bubble 1.0, every bay-area tech office had at least one token Punk wearing an OpIvy t-shirt. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_(band) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Ivy_(band)