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Walmart was forced to pay $15 Billion by Amazon, I think. Amazon-India is already a force to reckon with in India. They have a ton of customer love in India, an

Walmart was forced to pay $15 Billion by Amazon, I think. Amazon-India is already a force to reckon with in India. They have a ton of customer love in India, and they are killing it. There is no reason for them to buy Flipkart. They did the required to hurt their competitor by feigning interest. Bezos is a master at deception. Well played, Bezos and Flipkart investors. Stingy Walmart has to cough up more money.

dominotw 8y ago
I agree with amazon killing it. I used to shop both on flipkart and amazon. Now I just shop on Amazon. At some point I just stopped checking flipkart.
- piyush_soni 8y ago
  Same here. I think the reason was the amazing customer service at Amazon, and mostly the effective price on Amazon was always lower.
  - actuator 8y ago
    I think Prime also killed it. Fast deliveries and no minimum amount ended up making Amazon the first choice in my head.
    - intended 8y ago
      Didn’t someone calculate that prime prices were too low and will rise (and were already rising)?
  - meko 8y ago
    Until they become a monopoly and all that good customer service dissolves down the drain. It's already happening in the US.
    - ryanmarsh 8y ago
      Thank god I haven’t had that happen yet. I’ve had Amazon give above-and-beyond customer service twice recently. They gave me discounts and credits I wasn’t even asking for. I hope it doesn’t go down the drain but I suppose at some point it’s bound to happen.
    - ekianjo 8y ago
      we keep hearing this yet there is hardly good evidence for this. And if if occurs then more opportiunities open for their competitors.
      - beiller 8y ago
        How about cable companies? Some argue Amazon is subsidized in the same way, by having USPS shipping cheaply to the outskirts.
        ekianjo 8y ago
        cable tv you mean? Its not comparable since many have local monopolies in practice.
        cthalupa 8y ago
        My understanding is that this argument is not a particularly good one. I may be incorrect, but my understanding is that while Amazon pays a discounted rate, this is the same as any other bulk shipper for USPS, and in fact, without Amazon, many routes would not be profitable for USPS without Amazon.
        bonesss 8y ago
        USPS negotiates rates with companies that engage in bulk transactions at scale. The claim that Amazon is ripping off the USPS is... well that's "fake news": > [Amazons] rates are kept under wraps. That said, we do know the Amazon deal is at least a break-even venture. > That’s because the 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act made it illegal for USPS to price parcel delivery below its cost. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/02/donald-trump/trump-usps-postal-service-amazon-losing-fortune/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/...
  - bsder 8y ago
    I'm going to assume you aren't in the US because that simply isn't true here. Amazon is quite often not the lowest price. And, while they do still seem to be quite liberal with "send it back and we'll refund plus <mumble>", that doesn't matter if you can't get a genuine product because of all the counterfeits.
    - jazoom 8y ago
      >I'm going to assume you aren't in the US because that simply isn't true here. I'm pretty sure most of these comments are about Amazon India since that's what this discussion is about.
    - ctvo 8y ago
      The only place on the internet I read about Amazon's supposed counterfeit problem is on HackerNews. I buy everything on Amazon, and I've never had this problem. Do you have any data to back up this claim?
      - ReverseCold 8y ago
        You won't have a problem if you buy "big-ticket" (I'm using this word incorrectly, but hopefully you get what I mean. Normal consumer goods(?).) If you buy something used, or something with a lot of knockoffs (Xiaomi) or old tech (GameCube Controllers) there is a chance you will get a counterfeit. I switched to buying all that stuff from eBay and it's much better. Untrusted-by-default makes eBay a very healthy marketplace to buy and sell in.
      - qaq 8y ago
        I think people are posting based on their personal experience I got fake macbook Pro charger (sold and fulfilled by Amazon) 2 times out of 5 purchases so now just buy directly from apple when I need any Apple accessories.
      - schmidttyOIB 8y ago
        Well, “I’ve never had this problem” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. From a quick search (says “Apple Computer”, but tell me if that’s really made by Apple or not): https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787CFNRQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525756294&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=apple+charger&dpPl=1&dpID=319mHJjRbpL&ref=plSrch https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787CFNRQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=...
  - balladeer 8y ago
    Customer service and total disregard for what customers wants. Not to mention their "mobile only" stupidity starting with Myntra which they were trying to extend to Flipkart but stopped just in time. I just can't believe that Flipkart still doesn't have filter and sort by ratings. There can be arguments about how effective ratings are but this is one feature I definitely need for buying or booking anything - from my stationary to hotels and buses. PS. I just logged in to Flipkart to check whether they have added that feature yet. I guess my last login was a year ago or more. Last purchase was on July 29, 2015.
  - colmvp 8y ago
    I'm so jealous. In Canada, Amazon is pretty pathetic. So many things are out of stock, or not available for purchase. The few things that are available for purchase are sometimes only offered by third-parties, who jack up the price by an exorbitant amount.
    - r_singh 8y ago
      I've read multiple times on HN that Amazon isn't doing very well in other countries (like US, Canada, Argentina, etc.) and that Prime is super expensive as well. In India, Amazon is so good its hard to imagine how it will be sustainable. I paid $8/year for prime (yes a year) and they're now selling it at $16/year for free 24 hours delivery. However, I can foresee how it may not be as good in the near future. Try buying a pair of Apple Airpods and one soon figures AMZN is not best place to make the purchase, it's so hard to tell which seller / product is genuine!
      - is_true 8y ago
        There's no Amazon in Argentina.
        r_singh 8y ago
        You're right. I misunderstood a reply that said, "I pay 99USD for Amazon Prime here in Argentina". Didn't think the user was talking about US Amazon Prime purchased from Argentina.
- rakamotog 8y ago
  From India, wish there was a way to separate, cheap products (yes, I can filter via price) and counterfeit products to get some high-quality products (albeit at a higher price point). So many of my recent decisions have been offline because I can't figure out which products are high quality. ex:- phone charger (the quick charge one, wire tears in days), infusion water bottle (breaks in months), Bluetooth earphones (This one was a nightmare) Wish there was a filter for this on Amazon!
  - freehunter 8y ago
    Same thing with Amazon in the US. I want a metal water bottle with a flip-top lid but I can't find any in my local stores. I find them on Amazon, but the reviews always say "I didn't get the brand, I got a counterfeit product" so I haven't bought one yet. I ended up paying $30 extra for my backpack I bought recently because I didn't trust the Amazon items were real after reviews saying they were counterfeit. And these are Prime items, sold by the manufacturer, but they're stilling coming counterfeit.
    - plussed_reader 8y ago
      "And these are Prime items, sold by the manufacturer, but they're stilling coming counterfeit." Part of this sentence isn't true.
      - freehunter 8y ago
        As in, Amazon says it's a Prime item, and Amazon says the seller is the manufacturer, but when you receive the item they've sent you a counterfeit item.
    - ryanlol 8y ago
      It takes less time to get a refund than it takes to read the reviews, why do you care?
      - freehunter 8y ago
seshagiric 8y ago
If Walmart pays a large amount, it is still advantageous to Amazon but does not look like that was the only ploy. Amazon may have actually tried hard to prevent Walmart gain a foothold in online retail. Flipkart is reported as the largest or 2nd largest online retailer in India, to prevent that volume going to Walmart Amazon may have tried hard and pushed price in the process.
mtgx 8y ago
That may be so, but now that it can afford it, Amazon has every intention of becoming a monopoly in the markets it enters. It's why they bought the #1 retailer in the Middle East, too: http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-amazon-souq-20170328-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-amazon-s... People love Amazon now, but I think it's time to fear it. They're already in bed with governments for multi-billion contracts, and are aiming for monopoly power. They won't behave well for much longer, and I'd argue they've already started behaving badly (raising prices on consumers, lowering commissions on affiliates, and so on).
- Cyph0n 8y ago
  The acquisition of Souq was mainly a response to the announcement of Noon, a $1 billion Souq competitor out of KSA.
- HillaryBriss 8y ago
  > I think it's time to fear it. as a consumer, i agree. but so do a lot of companies. Run down the list of private sectors that spend the most on information technology -- health care, banking, retail, insurance -- and all of them worry Amazon is coming for them. https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2018-02-15/worried-about-amazon-companies-run-into-google-s-arms https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2018-02-15/worried...
wpietri 8y ago
And I'd add that a high price hurts Walmart more than Amazon. Amazon's market cap is 3x Walmart's. Amazon has $31 billion in cash and short-term investments; Walmart has about $7 billion. On top of this, presumably Walmart will be investing heavily in expansion. I think Walmart's stinginess is also an important point here. At this price, plus the additional money they put in, a good ROI gets harder. Bezos has never really cared about short-term ROI, but I wonder if Walmart will be inclined to be impatient or under-invest later because of the high price now.
- ENOTTY 8y ago
  "Google-parent Alphabet Inc. is likely to participate in the investment with Walmart, said one of the people" Walmart is getting help.
- skinnymuch 8y ago
  Is anyone besides Google contributing. I think I read Google is giving $3B so that’s a decent chunk. I’m guessing they wanted Softbank out for control in general and since Softbank loves to control, otherwise they could’ve saved another $4B and let Softbank keep 20% control.
guilt 8y ago
That's so wrong. Way back in 2012 Amazon already threw a raw deal at Flipkart and they haven't really spoken to each other since. Also, Amazon have tried to crush Flipkart by essentially dumping their money into long term growth in India and Flipkart survived through it. The Flipkart board would rather side with Walmart than Amazon, even if Amazon matched Walmart's offer. Walmart has ties with manufacturing in India. On the other hand, Amazon and Flipkart run a marketplace (mostly) in India. Pretty sure Flipkart would have seen this and has taken the right decision in siding with Walmart. Amazon's loss unless they can really do something about raw materials and manufacturing in India. That is the real deal now.

dominotw 8y ago

I agree with amazon killing it. I used to shop both on flipkart and amazon. Now I just shop on Amazon. At some point I just stopped checking flipkart.

piyush_soni 8y ago
Same here. I think the reason was the amazing customer service at Amazon, and mostly the effective price on Amazon was always lower.
- actuator 8y ago
  I think Prime also killed it. Fast deliveries and no minimum amount ended up making Amazon the first choice in my head.
  - intended 8y ago
    Didn’t someone calculate that prime prices were too low and will rise (and were already rising)?
- meko 8y ago
  Until they become a monopoly and all that good customer service dissolves down the drain. It's already happening in the US.
  - ryanmarsh 8y ago
    Thank god I haven’t had that happen yet. I’ve had Amazon give above-and-beyond customer service twice recently. They gave me discounts and credits I wasn’t even asking for. I hope it doesn’t go down the drain but I suppose at some point it’s bound to happen.
  - ekianjo 8y ago
    we keep hearing this yet there is hardly good evidence for this. And if if occurs then more opportiunities open for their competitors.
    - beiller 8y ago
      How about cable companies? Some argue Amazon is subsidized in the same way, by having USPS shipping cheaply to the outskirts.
      - ekianjo 8y ago
        cable tv you mean? Its not comparable since many have local monopolies in practice.
      - cthalupa 8y ago
        My understanding is that this argument is not a particularly good one. I may be incorrect, but my understanding is that while Amazon pays a discounted rate, this is the same as any other bulk shipper for USPS, and in fact, without Amazon, many routes would not be profitable for USPS without Amazon.
      - bonesss 8y ago
        USPS negotiates rates with companies that engage in bulk transactions at scale. The claim that Amazon is ripping off the USPS is... well that's "fake news": > [Amazons] rates are kept under wraps. That said, we do know the Amazon deal is at least a break-even venture. > That’s because the 2006 Postal Accountability and Enhancement Act made it illegal for USPS to price parcel delivery below its cost. http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/02/donald-trump/trump-usps-postal-service-amazon-losing-fortune/ http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2018/apr/...
- bsder 8y ago
  I'm going to assume you aren't in the US because that simply isn't true here. Amazon is quite often not the lowest price. And, while they do still seem to be quite liberal with "send it back and we'll refund plus <mumble>", that doesn't matter if you can't get a genuine product because of all the counterfeits.
  - jazoom 8y ago
    >I'm going to assume you aren't in the US because that simply isn't true here. I'm pretty sure most of these comments are about Amazon India since that's what this discussion is about.
  - ctvo 8y ago
    The only place on the internet I read about Amazon's supposed counterfeit problem is on HackerNews. I buy everything on Amazon, and I've never had this problem. Do you have any data to back up this claim?
    - ReverseCold 8y ago
      You won't have a problem if you buy "big-ticket" (I'm using this word incorrectly, but hopefully you get what I mean. Normal consumer goods(?).) If you buy something used, or something with a lot of knockoffs (Xiaomi) or old tech (GameCube Controllers) there is a chance you will get a counterfeit. I switched to buying all that stuff from eBay and it's much better. Untrusted-by-default makes eBay a very healthy marketplace to buy and sell in.
    - qaq 8y ago
      I think people are posting based on their personal experience I got fake macbook Pro charger (sold and fulfilled by Amazon) 2 times out of 5 purchases so now just buy directly from apple when I need any Apple accessories.
    - schmidttyOIB 8y ago
      Well, “I’ve never had this problem” doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. From a quick search (says “Apple Computer”, but tell me if that’s really made by Apple or not): https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787CFNRQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1525756294&sr=8-3&pi=AC_SX236_SY340_QL65&keywords=apple+charger&dpPl=1&dpID=319mHJjRbpL&ref=plSrch https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0787CFNRQ/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?ie=...
- balladeer 8y ago
  Customer service and total disregard for what customers wants. Not to mention their "mobile only" stupidity starting with Myntra which they were trying to extend to Flipkart but stopped just in time. I just can't believe that Flipkart still doesn't have filter and sort by ratings. There can be arguments about how effective ratings are but this is one feature I definitely need for buying or booking anything - from my stationary to hotels and buses. PS. I just logged in to Flipkart to check whether they have added that feature yet. I guess my last login was a year ago or more. Last purchase was on July 29, 2015.
- colmvp 8y ago
  I'm so jealous. In Canada, Amazon is pretty pathetic. So many things are out of stock, or not available for purchase. The few things that are available for purchase are sometimes only offered by third-parties, who jack up the price by an exorbitant amount.
  - r_singh 8y ago
    I've read multiple times on HN that Amazon isn't doing very well in other countries (like US, Canada, Argentina, etc.) and that Prime is super expensive as well. In India, Amazon is so good its hard to imagine how it will be sustainable. I paid $8/year for prime (yes a year) and they're now selling it at $16/year for free 24 hours delivery. However, I can foresee how it may not be as good in the near future. Try buying a pair of Apple Airpods and one soon figures AMZN is not best place to make the purchase, it's so hard to tell which seller / product is genuine!
    - is_true 8y ago
      There's no Amazon in Argentina.
      - r_singh 8y ago
        You're right. I misunderstood a reply that said, "I pay 99USD for Amazon Prime here in Argentina". Didn't think the user was talking about US Amazon Prime purchased from Argentina.
rakamotog 8y ago
From India, wish there was a way to separate, cheap products (yes, I can filter via price) and counterfeit products to get some high-quality products (albeit at a higher price point). So many of my recent decisions have been offline because I can't figure out which products are high quality. ex:- phone charger (the quick charge one, wire tears in days), infusion water bottle (breaks in months), Bluetooth earphones (This one was a nightmare) Wish there was a filter for this on Amazon!
- freehunter 8y ago
  Same thing with Amazon in the US. I want a metal water bottle with a flip-top lid but I can't find any in my local stores. I find them on Amazon, but the reviews always say "I didn't get the brand, I got a counterfeit product" so I haven't bought one yet. I ended up paying $30 extra for my backpack I bought recently because I didn't trust the Amazon items were real after reviews saying they were counterfeit. And these are Prime items, sold by the manufacturer, but they're stilling coming counterfeit.
  - plussed_reader 8y ago
    "And these are Prime items, sold by the manufacturer, but they're stilling coming counterfeit." Part of this sentence isn't true.
    - freehunter 8y ago
      As in, Amazon says it's a Prime item, and Amazon says the seller is the manufacturer, but when you receive the item they've sent you a counterfeit item.
  - ryanlol 8y ago
    It takes less time to get a refund than it takes to read the reviews, why do you care?
    - freehunter 8y ago

seshagiric 8y ago

If Walmart pays a large amount, it is still advantageous to Amazon but does not look like that was the only ploy. Amazon may have actually tried hard to prevent Walmart gain a foothold in online retail. Flipkart is reported as the largest or 2nd largest online retailer in India, to prevent that volume going to Walmart Amazon may have tried hard and pushed price in the process.

mtgx 8y ago

That may be so, but now that it can afford it, Amazon has every intention of becoming a monopoly in the markets it enters. It's why they bought the #1 retailer in the Middle East, too: http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-amazon-souq-20170328-story.html http://www.latimes.com/business/technology/la-fi-tn-amazon-s... People love Amazon now, but I think it's time to fear it. They're already in bed with governments for multi-billion contracts, and are aiming for monopoly power. They won't behave well for much longer, and I'd argue they've already started behaving badly (raising prices on consumers, lowering commissions on affiliates, and so on).

Cyph0n 8y ago
The acquisition of Souq was mainly a response to the announcement of Noon, a $1 billion Souq competitor out of KSA.
HillaryBriss 8y ago
> I think it's time to fear it. as a consumer, i agree. but so do a lot of companies. Run down the list of private sectors that spend the most on information technology -- health care, banking, retail, insurance -- and all of them worry Amazon is coming for them. https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2018-02-15/worried-about-amazon-companies-run-into-google-s-arms https://www.bloomberg.com/gadfly/articles/2018-02-15/worried...

wpietri 8y ago

And I'd add that a high price hurts Walmart more than Amazon. Amazon's market cap is 3x Walmart's. Amazon has $31 billion in cash and short-term investments; Walmart has about $7 billion. On top of this, presumably Walmart will be investing heavily in expansion. I think Walmart's stinginess is also an important point here. At this price, plus the additional money they put in, a good ROI gets harder. Bezos has never really cared about short-term ROI, but I wonder if Walmart will be inclined to be impatient or under-invest later because of the high price now.

ENOTTY 8y ago
"Google-parent Alphabet Inc. is likely to participate in the investment with Walmart, said one of the people" Walmart is getting help.
skinnymuch 8y ago
Is anyone besides Google contributing. I think I read Google is giving $3B so that’s a decent chunk. I’m guessing they wanted Softbank out for control in general and since Softbank loves to control, otherwise they could’ve saved another $4B and let Softbank keep 20% control.

guilt 8y ago

That's so wrong. Way back in 2012 Amazon already threw a raw deal at Flipkart and they haven't really spoken to each other since. Also, Amazon have tried to crush Flipkart by essentially dumping their money into long term growth in India and Flipkart survived through it. The Flipkart board would rather side with Walmart than Amazon, even if Amazon matched Walmart's offer. Walmart has ties with manufacturing in India. On the other hand, Amazon and Flipkart run a marketplace (mostly) in India. Pretty sure Flipkart would have seen this and has taken the right decision in siding with Walmart. Amazon's loss unless they can really do something about raw materials and manufacturing in India. That is the real deal now.