5 ms·

If you're a hiker, permethrin. Spray down your socks, pants, shirts. Let it dry. You're good to go for a dozen outings. Non toxic to humans, and orderless.

michaelangerman 8y ago
according to wikipedia permethrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin kills bees...
- sp332 8y ago
  Sure but how many bees are you rubbing up against on a hike?
- exhilaration 8y ago
  I'm pretty sure it kills all insects, but the bees would have to land on your treated clothing to be affected.
  - retSava 8y ago
    One can guess that the primary source of release of the chemical is not by rubbing yourself on things, but from washing your clothes. Thus, it would end up in the oceans.
    - overcast 8y ago
      When the alternative is Lyme Disease? I'm not giving it up. My cousin is severely affected by it right now, in her brain, affecting everything. It's awful.
      - MycroftJones 8y ago
        You can get Japanese Knotweed powder from Montana Farmacy. It helped a friend of mine he is now functional. One or two tablespoons a day.
    - ams6110 8y ago
      It would be so dilute by that point that it would not be worth worrying about.
      - maxerickson 8y ago
        More important than the concentration it degrades fairly quickly in water.
    - loeg 8y ago
      The ocean has a lot of water in it, and it is unlikely to be deadly at such low concentrations.
- rileyphone 8y ago
  I think it only kills on contact with clothing, so as long as the bees don't run into you they're good.
- r00fus 8y ago
  Is it part of colony collapse disorder? I see it like antibiotics - local usage probably pales in comparison to agricultural/industrial usage (e.g. sheep dip [1] and neonicotinoid usage [2] ) Yeah, I don't think dousing yourself with insecticide is all that dangerous unless you're doing it constantly like the agricultural examples above. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_dip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_dip [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/study-strengthens-link-between-neonicotinoids-and-collapse-of-honey-bee-colonies/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/study-stren...
Alex3917 8y ago
Permethrin is definitely the best option. But if you're running out at the last minute and don't have time to pretreat your clothing, Consumer Reports has a good guide to the best bug sprays on the market: https://www.consumerreports.org/products/insect-repellent/ratings-overview/ https://www.consumerreports.org/products/insect-repellent/ra... E.g. both of these get high marks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8AMY92 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8AMY92 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015KG5NK https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015KG5NK DEET seems to be more effective than the Picaridin for ticks, but if you have a sensitivity to DEET then Picaridin may be the next best option and supposedly doesn't smell as bad.
- 13of40 8y ago
  >doesn't smell as bad If you look up the MSDS for DEET, it's actually odorless. The classic smell of Off! isn't from the DEET, and you can get odorless versions of it. I found a very good one in Moscow a few years back that just smelled like hand cream.
Tiktaalik 8y ago
Not legal in Canada. Then again there's few ticks in Canada's north, so Canadian hikers should just explore the northern part of their provinces.
- Pxtl 8y ago
  Yes, but Lake Huron has some of the best dunes and freshwater beaches in Canada. It'd be hard to give that up.
- vlan0 8y ago
  Might need to carry a flame thrower for the black flies though!
- overcast 8y ago
  That's unfortunate, I still spray before I leave to hike in Banff from the US though :)
- jammur 8y ago
  Not legal to sell, but legal to possess. I go across the border and stock up at REI in Bellingham. No problems bringing it back across. Apparently this is quite common for lower mainland residents. When I brought 4 big bottles of the stuff up to the register, the first thing they asked was if I was Canadian.
  - Tiktaalik 8y ago
    Ah yeah that's a good distinction that I should have made. I think I read somewhere that it's used by the Canadian Forces as well, but not made available to civilians.
    - jammur 8y ago
      I wonder why you can't sell it here. They even recommend it on the government's travel site: https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/insect-bite https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/insect-bite
mobilefriendly 8y ago
If you live in a target area, on the first of each month May-August treat all outdoor running and hiking shoes for your whole family. Also for dogs and cats use Frontline.
wes-k 8y ago
As long as you don’t get any in any water as it will kill fish.

michaelangerman 8y ago

according to wikipedia permethrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permethrin kills bees...

sp332 8y ago
Sure but how many bees are you rubbing up against on a hike?
exhilaration 8y ago
I'm pretty sure it kills all insects, but the bees would have to land on your treated clothing to be affected.
- retSava 8y ago
  One can guess that the primary source of release of the chemical is not by rubbing yourself on things, but from washing your clothes. Thus, it would end up in the oceans.
  - overcast 8y ago
    When the alternative is Lyme Disease? I'm not giving it up. My cousin is severely affected by it right now, in her brain, affecting everything. It's awful.
    - MycroftJones 8y ago
      You can get Japanese Knotweed powder from Montana Farmacy. It helped a friend of mine he is now functional. One or two tablespoons a day.
  - ams6110 8y ago
    It would be so dilute by that point that it would not be worth worrying about.
    - maxerickson 8y ago
      More important than the concentration it degrades fairly quickly in water.
  - loeg 8y ago
    The ocean has a lot of water in it, and it is unlikely to be deadly at such low concentrations.
rileyphone 8y ago
I think it only kills on contact with clothing, so as long as the bees don't run into you they're good.
r00fus 8y ago
Is it part of colony collapse disorder? I see it like antibiotics - local usage probably pales in comparison to agricultural/industrial usage (e.g. sheep dip [1] and neonicotinoid usage [2] ) Yeah, I don't think dousing yourself with insecticide is all that dangerous unless you're doing it constantly like the agricultural examples above. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_dip https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sheep_dip [2] https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/study-strengthens-link-between-neonicotinoids-and-collapse-of-honey-bee-colonies/ https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/press-releases/study-stren...

Alex3917 8y ago

Permethrin is definitely the best option. But if you're running out at the last minute and don't have time to pretreat your clothing, Consumer Reports has a good guide to the best bug sprays on the market: https://www.consumerreports.org/products/insect-repellent/ratings-overview/ https://www.consumerreports.org/products/insect-repellent/ra... E.g. both of these get high marks: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8AMY92 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00F8AMY92 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015KG5NK https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0015KG5NK DEET seems to be more effective than the Picaridin for ticks, but if you have a sensitivity to DEET then Picaridin may be the next best option and supposedly doesn't smell as bad.

13of40 8y ago
>doesn't smell as bad If you look up the MSDS for DEET, it's actually odorless. The classic smell of Off! isn't from the DEET, and you can get odorless versions of it. I found a very good one in Moscow a few years back that just smelled like hand cream.

Tiktaalik 8y ago

Not legal in Canada. Then again there's few ticks in Canada's north, so Canadian hikers should just explore the northern part of their provinces.

Pxtl 8y ago
Yes, but Lake Huron has some of the best dunes and freshwater beaches in Canada. It'd be hard to give that up.
vlan0 8y ago
Might need to carry a flame thrower for the black flies though!
overcast 8y ago
That's unfortunate, I still spray before I leave to hike in Banff from the US though :)
jammur 8y ago
Not legal to sell, but legal to possess. I go across the border and stock up at REI in Bellingham. No problems bringing it back across. Apparently this is quite common for lower mainland residents. When I brought 4 big bottles of the stuff up to the register, the first thing they asked was if I was Canadian.
- Tiktaalik 8y ago
  Ah yeah that's a good distinction that I should have made. I think I read somewhere that it's used by the Canadian Forces as well, but not made available to civilians.
  - jammur 8y ago
    I wonder why you can't sell it here. They even recommend it on the government's travel site: https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/insect-bite https://travel.gc.ca/travelling/health-safety/insect-bite

mobilefriendly 8y ago

If you live in a target area, on the first of each month May-August treat all outdoor running and hiking shoes for your whole family. Also for dogs and cats use Frontline.

wes-k 8y ago

As long as you don’t get any in any water as it will kill fish.