3 ms·

IMHO, they should compare their results with Kiva. Kiva provides zero-interest loans, so donations are not wasted, but used to create sustainable economic socie

IMHO, they should compare their results with Kiva. Kiva provides zero-interest loans, so donations are not wasted, but used to create sustainable economic society. Give fishing rod, not a fish. https://www.kiva.org/ https://www.kiva.org/

v_lisivka 8y ago
Can anybody explain that downvote? 8-[ ]
- deleted 8y ago
  [deleted]
- wolco 8y ago
  Not a downvoter but the post feels off topic
notahacker 8y ago
I'm not responsible for the downvote, but it's worth pointing out that whilst Kiva donors do not receive interest, most Kiva loan recipients pay relatively enormous interest rates (administering loans is expensive, even for the microfinance institutes which aren't trying to make a profit). There are undoubtedly beneficiaries who make good use of the credit, but also some losers and question marks about how sustainable it actually is... FWIW there's also YC's Zidisha in the microlending market which cuts out the middleman (but still charges interest)
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  AFAIK, most of these money staying in the country, creating additional flow, so I see no problem with that. It's much easier to return money, when you have business. For example, I heard about 3d printer group with rule: we give you 3d printer printed parts for free, but, when you will assemble your own printer, you must print 2 kits and donate them to others. From consumer perspective, it's 100% of interest, but from 3d printer hobbyst perspective, it's not a problem at all, because they will have printer, which will print them parts. Business is like a printer for money. Positive outcome is not guaranteed, of course, but fear of loss, as shown by some losers, drives majority to success.
savanaly 8y ago
>Give fishing rod, not a fish. I know you're speaking pretty abstractly, but let me run with it for a bit to illustrate the case for basic income: Better yet, is give money and let the person decide whether to buy a fishing rod or a fish. Which one is better depends on a lot of uncertain and hard to observe (for an outsider) factors like: * how badly an immediate fish is needed * how viable is it for the person to learn to fish? * how useful a fishing rod would be given the environment (people close to a river that has lots of fish probably have more use for a fishing rod) * what the opportunity cost of a person's time is (if they have another good alternative job then they would logically prefer the fish as supplementary income rather than a fishing rod which must replace their old job)
- v_lisivka 8y ago
  From my own experience, when I'm hungry, I will think about food and nothing else, so I will be biased. For my own good, it's better to manage my money by somebody with no bias. Loans are shifting my perspective: if I will eat that fish today, how I will return that fish? I will not event think about that when I have a food for free.

v_lisivka 8y ago

Can anybody explain that downvote? 8-[ ]

deleted 8y ago
[deleted]
wolco 8y ago
Not a downvoter but the post feels off topic

notahacker 8y ago

I'm not responsible for the downvote, but it's worth pointing out that whilst Kiva donors do not receive interest, most Kiva loan recipients pay relatively enormous interest rates (administering loans is expensive, even for the microfinance institutes which aren't trying to make a profit). There are undoubtedly beneficiaries who make good use of the credit, but also some losers and question marks about how sustainable it actually is... FWIW there's also YC's Zidisha in the microlending market which cuts out the middleman (but still charges interest)

v_lisivka 8y ago
AFAIK, most of these money staying in the country, creating additional flow, so I see no problem with that. It's much easier to return money, when you have business. For example, I heard about 3d printer group with rule: we give you 3d printer printed parts for free, but, when you will assemble your own printer, you must print 2 kits and donate them to others. From consumer perspective, it's 100% of interest, but from 3d printer hobbyst perspective, it's not a problem at all, because they will have printer, which will print them parts. Business is like a printer for money. Positive outcome is not guaranteed, of course, but fear of loss, as shown by some losers, drives majority to success.

savanaly 8y ago

>Give fishing rod, not a fish. I know you're speaking pretty abstractly, but let me run with it for a bit to illustrate the case for basic income: Better yet, is give money and let the person decide whether to buy a fishing rod or a fish. Which one is better depends on a lot of uncertain and hard to observe (for an outsider) factors like: * how badly an immediate fish is needed * how viable is it for the person to learn to fish? * how useful a fishing rod would be given the environment (people close to a river that has lots of fish probably have more use for a fishing rod) * what the opportunity cost of a person's time is (if they have another good alternative job then they would logically prefer the fish as supplementary income rather than a fishing rod which must replace their old job)

v_lisivka 8y ago
From my own experience, when I'm hungry, I will think about food and nothing else, so I will be biased. For my own good, it's better to manage my money by somebody with no bias. Loans are shifting my perspective: if I will eat that fish today, how I will return that fish? I will not event think about that when I have a food for free.