3 ms·

Many on that list are Jewish so that could be a reason.

by rb808 8y ago

oblio 8y ago
But not the majority (I've actually counted and it's 4/16) and definitely not the majority from this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_scientists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_scientists Also, I forgot to include philosophers... a very scary concept, considering the caliber of German philosophers (Kant, Nietzsche, etc.).
- throwawayjava 8y ago
  This misses the point a bit. Intellectuals are not a commodity. How do you weigh one Fermi or Einstein against 3 other scientists?
  - oblio 8y ago
    You're assuming that the native Germans were somehow second rate scientists. Re-check my list :) Germany not only destroyed its Jewish population willingly, therefore losing some of Germany's best minds but also destroyed its own research facilities, economy and even a good chunk of its native German scientists by shipping them off to war or having them bombed back at home. Folly of the greatest magnitude, any way you look at it.
    - throwawayjava 8y ago
      I don't see where I made that assumption. Kick out a few key faculty members and the rest of the good ones will follow, Jew or not, because they are good and have the choice to leave. You don't need all your faculty to be Jewish in order to lose all your good ones by kicking out a single Jewish faculty member. If you lose 4/16 of your academics but all 4 of those were the Giants, then you haven't decimated your department, but you have lost what made it good in the first place. Even before the war reached the borders, German mathematics was decimated. Sometimes by numbers, but always by the numbers that mattered. Because anyone good knew someone effected, and everyone good had the option to leave.
MrBuddyCasino 8y ago
There is even a quote on Hilbert's page: About a year later, Hilbert attended a banquet and was seated next to the new Minister of Education, Bernhard Rust. Rust asked whether "the Mathematical Institute really suffered so much because of the departure of the Jews". Hilbert replied, "Suffered? It doesn't exist any longer, does it!" Not sure that fully explains it, but its a sad and tragic loss nevertheless.
throwawayjava 8y ago
Yup. America's intellectual prominence owes a lot to the Jews (and others) who flead Germanic countries during ww2. Goedel, Einstein, Von Neumann, Fermi, Bethe. And countless others who refused to stay silent as their best colleagues disappeared. America feasted on the output of those people and their intellectual progeny. Meanwhile, the great German faculty were (in some cases literally) decimated.

Many on that list are Jewish so that could be a reason.

by rb808 8y ago

Many on that list are Jewish so that could be a reason.

But not the majority (I've actually counted and it's 4/16) and definitely not the majority from this list: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_scientists https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_German_scientists Also, I forgot to include philosophers... a very scary concept, considering the caliber of German philosophers (Kant, Nietzsche, etc.).

throwawayjava 8y ago
This misses the point a bit. Intellectuals are not a commodity. How do you weigh one Fermi or Einstein against 3 other scientists?
- oblio 8y ago
  You're assuming that the native Germans were somehow second rate scientists. Re-check my list :) Germany not only destroyed its Jewish population willingly, therefore losing some of Germany's best minds but also destroyed its own research facilities, economy and even a good chunk of its native German scientists by shipping them off to war or having them bombed back at home. Folly of the greatest magnitude, any way you look at it.
  - throwawayjava 8y ago
    I don't see where I made that assumption. Kick out a few key faculty members and the rest of the good ones will follow, Jew or not, because they are good and have the choice to leave. You don't need all your faculty to be Jewish in order to lose all your good ones by kicking out a single Jewish faculty member. If you lose 4/16 of your academics but all 4 of those were the Giants, then you haven't decimated your department, but you have lost what made it good in the first place. Even before the war reached the borders, German mathematics was decimated. Sometimes by numbers, but always by the numbers that mattered. Because anyone good knew someone effected, and everyone good had the option to leave.

MrBuddyCasino 8y ago

There is even a quote on Hilbert's page: About a year later, Hilbert attended a banquet and was seated next to the new Minister of Education, Bernhard Rust. Rust asked whether "the Mathematical Institute really suffered so much because of the departure of the Jews". Hilbert replied, "Suffered? It doesn't exist any longer, does it!" Not sure that fully explains it, but its a sad and tragic loss nevertheless.

throwawayjava 8y ago

Yup. America's intellectual prominence owes a lot to the Jews (and others) who flead Germanic countries during ww2. Goedel, Einstein, Von Neumann, Fermi, Bethe. And countless others who refused to stay silent as their best colleagues disappeared. America feasted on the output of those people and their intellectual progeny. Meanwhile, the great German faculty were (in some cases literally) decimated.