5 ms·

I'm almost permanently ready to ditch Windows for good and move to MacOS and Linux. And I've been a Windows user since 3.1. If we're really moving to the equiv

I'm almost permanently ready to ditch Windows for good and move to MacOS and Linux. And I've been a Windows user since 3.1. If we're really moving to the equivalent of Windows 11 and 12, I must ask: who is paying for these releases (besides OEMs with new hardware)? I'm not paying the upgrade fee I paid for 98, XP, and 7 on old hardware. Microsoft is obviously not a charity and their devs don't work for free, and they have to recoup their costs and more. But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365, and even advertising on my desktop, along with now being volunteered by Microsoft to take on their QA as they force-install beta software on my PCs are NOT things I'm willing to exchange for the former $100 upgrade costs I've always willingly paid previously and made them a very profitable company. In other words, each newer update brings fewer features I want as a paying user, and more and more anti-features I'm not willing to trade for my privacy, time, and attention. The fact that they have to nerve to explicitly reset, upon each update, the settings that took me hours to find and apply - turning off Cortana, the telemetry (the most I can, anyway), all the privacy-invading phone / tablet features, the demands to sign-in to MS account, etc - pisses me off and makes it easier to swallow the issues with Linux and the absurb prices Apple charges.

spronkey 8y ago
macOS is no better. It's getting worse too, High Sierra has been a clusterfuck all around.
- pdimitar 8y ago
  Any examples? I do programming on my MacBook Pro 2015 with several databases and 10+ language runtimes installed and very rarely had any issue at all.
- x0054 8y ago
  But unless things changed quite a bit (I am still on 10.11.6) doesn't Apple always give you the option to update or not update MacOS? Even with iOS it's a positive action, you have to click something to update, no? I am fine with that, I just want to do the updates on my schedule, not Apples and Microsoft's. On macOS I have a lot of dev stuff setup and I would be pretty pissed if it did an update without me specifically and affirmatively concerning to it.
pdimitar 8y ago
Apple does charge absurd prices but their machines are very long-lasting and robust. Go to a service shop once a year for a full dust cleanup and maybe change of the thermal paste once every 2 years, and your MacBook can hum along for 7-10 years in total, easily. I am gathering money to buy the maxed out iMac Pro (~$13,100) but in the meantime I have nothing bad to say about the MBP 2015. Occasional stupid bugs do occur of course, like in any OS, but rarer than on my Windows 10 PC, and a restart fixes things which usually never resurface again. So yes they are expensive. I was a Linux/Windows and Android advocate most of my life but eventually conceded that Apple is simply much more comfortable, predictable and ergonomic (their displays don't tire my eyes as any other display I tried, including gaming displays with 144-200Hz refresh rate) and that I have better things to do with my life than to always do the OS authors' work for them. Much bonus points to them for actual privacy as well.
- kerng 8y ago
  You have mostly disregarded the quality of the software which this discussion is focused on. Are you running Windows on your Mac? Apple's software quality isn't all that great either, they have had constant glitches the last couple releases.
  - pdimitar 8y ago
    No, I only use macOS on my MBP 2015. As for the builtin software's quality, I agree it's not stellar -- and the App Store on macOS is a relic from the past that's way beyond its lifetime and needs urgent rework. That being said, the OS itself is crazy stable for me and the occasional glitches appear only once or twice. Not sure how you got so unlucky, sorry about that. And finally, I was able to find software for absolutely everything I need, in every single user or programming area. Granted I am not a researcher that has to maintain 50+ installed runtimes and compilers but I code in several languages and use several different databases and I haven't stumbled upon a single issue there.
- hiram112 8y ago
  I just bought my first (non work provided) MBP - a 2015 for about $1750. I can't even use Linux or Windows anymore these things are so nice! You're saying I should go to an authorized Apple shop and have them crack it open to dust it out and change thermal paste? I've always had Thinkpads and Dells which are servicable, and I do spray compressed air on the inside every few years, but have never re-applied thermal paste. You do this on your MBPs? How much will it cost every few years, and also should I bother with Apple care? Right now I've only the one year warranty.
jimnotgym 8y ago
> who is paying for these releases > But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365 Not so much telemetry and tie ins, but enterprise users of Azure, 365 and CAL licensed products like Exchange and RDS. Perhaps if they can charge me £1,000 a month for my office users, then they are not so bothered about the cost of making the OS?

spronkey 8y ago

macOS is no better. It's getting worse too, High Sierra has been a clusterfuck all around.

pdimitar 8y ago
Any examples? I do programming on my MacBook Pro 2015 with several databases and 10+ language runtimes installed and very rarely had any issue at all.
x0054 8y ago
But unless things changed quite a bit (I am still on 10.11.6) doesn't Apple always give you the option to update or not update MacOS? Even with iOS it's a positive action, you have to click something to update, no? I am fine with that, I just want to do the updates on my schedule, not Apples and Microsoft's. On macOS I have a lot of dev stuff setup and I would be pretty pissed if it did an update without me specifically and affirmatively concerning to it.

pdimitar 8y ago

Apple does charge absurd prices but their machines are very long-lasting and robust. Go to a service shop once a year for a full dust cleanup and maybe change of the thermal paste once every 2 years, and your MacBook can hum along for 7-10 years in total, easily. I am gathering money to buy the maxed out iMac Pro (~$13,100) but in the meantime I have nothing bad to say about the MBP 2015. Occasional stupid bugs do occur of course, like in any OS, but rarer than on my Windows 10 PC, and a restart fixes things which usually never resurface again. So yes they are expensive. I was a Linux/Windows and Android advocate most of my life but eventually conceded that Apple is simply much more comfortable, predictable and ergonomic (their displays don't tire my eyes as any other display I tried, including gaming displays with 144-200Hz refresh rate) and that I have better things to do with my life than to always do the OS authors' work for them. Much bonus points to them for actual privacy as well.

kerng 8y ago
You have mostly disregarded the quality of the software which this discussion is focused on. Are you running Windows on your Mac? Apple's software quality isn't all that great either, they have had constant glitches the last couple releases.
- pdimitar 8y ago
  No, I only use macOS on my MBP 2015. As for the builtin software's quality, I agree it's not stellar -- and the App Store on macOS is a relic from the past that's way beyond its lifetime and needs urgent rework. That being said, the OS itself is crazy stable for me and the occasional glitches appear only once or twice. Not sure how you got so unlucky, sorry about that. And finally, I was able to find software for absolutely everything I need, in every single user or programming area. Granted I am not a researcher that has to maintain 50+ installed runtimes and compilers but I code in several languages and use several different databases and I haven't stumbled upon a single issue there.
hiram112 8y ago
I just bought my first (non work provided) MBP - a 2015 for about $1750. I can't even use Linux or Windows anymore these things are so nice! You're saying I should go to an authorized Apple shop and have them crack it open to dust it out and change thermal paste? I've always had Thinkpads and Dells which are servicable, and I do spray compressed air on the inside every few years, but have never re-applied thermal paste. You do this on your MBPs? How much will it cost every few years, and also should I bother with Apple care? Right now I've only the one year warranty.

jimnotgym 8y ago

> who is paying for these releases > But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365 Not so much telemetry and tie ins, but enterprise users of Azure, 365 and CAL licensed products like Exchange and RDS. Perhaps if they can charge me £1,000 a month for my office users, then they are not so bothered about the cost of making the OS?