4 ms·

Having driven Fords, GMs and a Tesla, I'd say GM isn't international standard either, but Ford is definitely.

nitrogen 8y ago
In terms of driving experience, most Ford cars I've driven (Contour, Focus, and Taurus, probably all from early 2000s; they are probably better now) handle like boats; turning radius comparable to an oil tanker, unresponsive brakes and gas, etc. So there are tradeoffs among all makes and models within those makes.
- doikor 8y ago
  All the things you mentioned are design decisions not build quality related.
  - fsloth 8y ago
    Weeelll... given that a modern car is a complex dynamic system I would presume it's not to trivial to state where exactly design constraints concerning build quality end and dynamics and handling start. For the end user they both affect the 'feel' of the product - how it behaves on the detail level when in use. "I have a door I have a hard time closing" and "the dynamics feel a bit clumsy" deal with totally different things on the engineering level, but end users (generally) are not buying engineering but holistic products. Namely, concerning this comment: Are there compromises made on the design of the handling to facilitate the build quality? And if there are, then those are not two different things, but systems which interact - hence, it's relevant to offer commentary on one while discussing the other.
    - taneq 8y ago
      > it's not to trivial to state where exactly design constraints concerning build quality end and dynamics and handling start Maybe I'm being overly simplistic here but I'd say if the finished product doesn't match the design then it's a build quality issue, whereas if it does match the design and it's still crap then that's a design issue. Arguably if they end product doesn't match the design because the design isn't feasible to manufacture then that would also be a design issue.
      - Retric 8y ago
        Unless the design is limited by build quality issues. The AK-47 is perhaps the most famous example, but most designs are a back and forth around the manufacturing process.
  - woodpanel 8y ago
    This is exactly what I've meant. Ford doesn't compete with Land Rover, Mercedes and BMWs but deliver a good value-for-money nonetheless. Compare that to a Cadillac Escalade from GM: Worse quality than a Ford, priced at Mercedes level.
- historylurker 8y ago
  Do you expect a Ford from 15+ years ago to perform like a car built today that costs 3x as much?
cptskippy 8y ago
I've never driven a modern for F Series but I have driven most of their Sedans and I can understand why they're withdrawing them from the US market. They're quite bad. We took a road trip from Poughkeepsie to Niagra in a rented Ford Focus. It had a USB charge port in the center console that came out when we went to unplug the cable. This got me prodding about at the rest of the interior and most of it was too easily removable with my bare hands. It was scary to think who the whole passenger compartment might just explode in your lap with an accident. I know many parts of the car are held together with retention clips and other tool-less mechanical fasteners but this Ford was exceptional. I don't know if it was down too the poor materials quality or the shoddy engineering of the fasteners but everything could be pulled apart with astonishingly little effort.
- justinclift 8y ago
  Wonder if that means it should be easily repairable? :)
  - theandrewbailey 8y ago
    Maybe, but that would violate the DMCA. :P
    - WalterSear 8y ago
      And good luck finding the proprietary parts. My friends motorcycle displays used encrypted handshakes to connect to the rest of the engine - ostensibly to prevent theft, but incidentally delivering lock-in.

In terms of driving experience, most Ford cars I've driven (Contour, Focus, and Taurus, probably all from early 2000s; they are probably better now) handle like boats; turning radius comparable to an oil tanker, unresponsive brakes and gas, etc. So there are tradeoffs among all makes and models within those makes.

doikor 8y ago
All the things you mentioned are design decisions not build quality related.
- fsloth 8y ago
  Weeelll... given that a modern car is a complex dynamic system I would presume it's not to trivial to state where exactly design constraints concerning build quality end and dynamics and handling start. For the end user they both affect the 'feel' of the product - how it behaves on the detail level when in use. "I have a door I have a hard time closing" and "the dynamics feel a bit clumsy" deal with totally different things on the engineering level, but end users (generally) are not buying engineering but holistic products. Namely, concerning this comment: Are there compromises made on the design of the handling to facilitate the build quality? And if there are, then those are not two different things, but systems which interact - hence, it's relevant to offer commentary on one while discussing the other.
  - taneq 8y ago
    > it's not to trivial to state where exactly design constraints concerning build quality end and dynamics and handling start Maybe I'm being overly simplistic here but I'd say if the finished product doesn't match the design then it's a build quality issue, whereas if it does match the design and it's still crap then that's a design issue. Arguably if they end product doesn't match the design because the design isn't feasible to manufacture then that would also be a design issue.
    - Retric 8y ago
      Unless the design is limited by build quality issues. The AK-47 is perhaps the most famous example, but most designs are a back and forth around the manufacturing process.
- woodpanel 8y ago
  This is exactly what I've meant. Ford doesn't compete with Land Rover, Mercedes and BMWs but deliver a good value-for-money nonetheless. Compare that to a Cadillac Escalade from GM: Worse quality than a Ford, priced at Mercedes level.
historylurker 8y ago
Do you expect a Ford from 15+ years ago to perform like a car built today that costs 3x as much?

cptskippy 8y ago

I've never driven a modern for F Series but I have driven most of their Sedans and I can understand why they're withdrawing them from the US market. They're quite bad. We took a road trip from Poughkeepsie to Niagra in a rented Ford Focus. It had a USB charge port in the center console that came out when we went to unplug the cable. This got me prodding about at the rest of the interior and most of it was too easily removable with my bare hands. It was scary to think who the whole passenger compartment might just explode in your lap with an accident. I know many parts of the car are held together with retention clips and other tool-less mechanical fasteners but this Ford was exceptional. I don't know if it was down too the poor materials quality or the shoddy engineering of the fasteners but everything could be pulled apart with astonishingly little effort.

justinclift 8y ago
Wonder if that means it should be easily repairable? :)
- theandrewbailey 8y ago
  Maybe, but that would violate the DMCA. :P
  - WalterSear 8y ago
    And good luck finding the proprietary parts. My friends motorcycle displays used encrypted handshakes to connect to the rest of the engine - ostensibly to prevent theft, but incidentally delivering lock-in.