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> stagnation in one's daily routine caused by one's job. Definitely this. We let work take way too much time from our lives. If you count commuting, the mini

> stagnation in one's daily routine caused by one's job. Definitely this. We let work take way too much time from our lives. If you count commuting, the minimum 8 hours at work (more like minimum 10) then work can eat up to 12 hrs/day. On top of that us 'knowledge workers' carry our work around in our heads all the time. It's not as though after 8hrs we just put the wrench down and go home, no the ongoing problems of work follow us around and even toss and turn us in our dreams sometimes. To me this is unacceptable. The way that we employ our working hours is a waste of time[1] on a colossal scale, and for little benefit to humanity most of the time. [1] Literally the finite precious time we each have on earth.

ende 8y ago
So when do we go on strike?
- sillysaurus3 8y ago
  Start writing about it. Five or so years later, if you gain a following, it can have an effect.
- harlanji 8y ago
  Now. When else? contracting is good for establishing boundaries, because it costs money to violate them. Price according to value of life mission opportunity cost, and have faith you’ll always have enough resources.
- Cthulhu_ 8y ago
  No need, the pay for software development is more than enough (like, 3-4x more than enough). The main problems are excess housing prices (so that income is not enough), and a combination of ambition / competitiveness / fear of missing out / fear of running behind.
  - pc86 8y ago
    Have you ever noticed how nobody complains about "excess housing prices" when they can easily afford it and the populations that have been living there for decades can't?
banditlover 8y ago
Lately, while reading The Now Habit, I've become more aware of how much my life revolves around my job (logistics and optimization). I think about it, I read about it, my current interests revolve around it and I also do it. It makes me happy, but what about all the people around me, and the time I'm not spending socializing with them. I also found it unacceptable. I'm definitely going to start planning for life, not for work.
varjag 8y ago
> It's not as though after 8hrs we just put the wrench down and go home, no the ongoing problems of work follow us around and even toss and turn us in our dreams sometimes. As many people who done both labour and knowledge work could tell, there isn't that much of a difference.
pc86 8y ago
An hour long one-way commute is certainly not the norm. Working for free beyond 8 hours is certainly not the norm. I work at a client site, and bill 40.0 hours a week. I work approximately 41.5 hours a week, including my commute. The average commute will be somewhere in the middle, sure. But just tossing out that work takes half of most people's day is disingenuous - it only does that if you let it, and if you choose not to live close to your office. I understand that's not always an option, especially in SF/NYC, but if you're willing to base your housing choices in part on where you're working, it's generally not difficult to have a sub-30 minute one-way commute. And letting work keep you up at night is 100% a choice.
- baby 8y ago
  > it only does that if you let it I disagree with you, especially with our field: you take work home. Even if you don't want, you can't disconnect and stop thinking about work as soon as your working hours are done. The only time where I can really disconnect is when I'm on holidays, and this usually happens after a week of holidays.
baby 8y ago
> We let work take way too much time from our lives. This is one of the sad realization one must have at some point. Reminds me of Bukowski's Factotum[1] where Bukowski mentions that we're selling our most precious item: our time. > “You haven’t been busting your ass, Chinaski.” > I stared down at my shoes for some time. I didn’t know what to say. Then I looked at him. “I’ve given you my time. It’s all I’ve got to give—it’s all any man has. And for a pitiful buck and a quarter an hour.” > “Remember you begged for this job. You said your job was your second home.” > “…my time so that you can live in your big house on the hill and have all the things that go with it. If anybody has lost anything on this deal, on this arrangement…I’ve been the loser. Do you understand?” I think this quote is valid whatever your paycheck. If you're working full time you're probably getting screwed in the deal. [1]: some quotes: https://p1x3l.com/story/214/bukowski-factotum https://p1x3l.com/story/214/bukowski-factotum

ende 8y ago

So when do we go on strike?

sillysaurus3 8y ago
Start writing about it. Five or so years later, if you gain a following, it can have an effect.
harlanji 8y ago
Now. When else? contracting is good for establishing boundaries, because it costs money to violate them. Price according to value of life mission opportunity cost, and have faith you’ll always have enough resources.
Cthulhu_ 8y ago
No need, the pay for software development is more than enough (like, 3-4x more than enough). The main problems are excess housing prices (so that income is not enough), and a combination of ambition / competitiveness / fear of missing out / fear of running behind.
- pc86 8y ago
  Have you ever noticed how nobody complains about "excess housing prices" when they can easily afford it and the populations that have been living there for decades can't?

banditlover 8y ago

Lately, while reading The Now Habit, I've become more aware of how much my life revolves around my job (logistics and optimization). I think about it, I read about it, my current interests revolve around it and I also do it. It makes me happy, but what about all the people around me, and the time I'm not spending socializing with them. I also found it unacceptable. I'm definitely going to start planning for life, not for work.

varjag 8y ago

> It's not as though after 8hrs we just put the wrench down and go home, no the ongoing problems of work follow us around and even toss and turn us in our dreams sometimes. As many people who done both labour and knowledge work could tell, there isn't that much of a difference.

pc86 8y ago

An hour long one-way commute is certainly not the norm. Working for free beyond 8 hours is certainly not the norm. I work at a client site, and bill 40.0 hours a week. I work approximately 41.5 hours a week, including my commute. The average commute will be somewhere in the middle, sure. But just tossing out that work takes half of most people's day is disingenuous - it only does that if you let it, and if you choose not to live close to your office. I understand that's not always an option, especially in SF/NYC, but if you're willing to base your housing choices in part on where you're working, it's generally not difficult to have a sub-30 minute one-way commute. And letting work keep you up at night is 100% a choice.

baby 8y ago
> it only does that if you let it I disagree with you, especially with our field: you take work home. Even if you don't want, you can't disconnect and stop thinking about work as soon as your working hours are done. The only time where I can really disconnect is when I'm on holidays, and this usually happens after a week of holidays.

baby 8y ago

> We let work take way too much time from our lives. This is one of the sad realization one must have at some point. Reminds me of Bukowski's Factotum[1] where Bukowski mentions that we're selling our most precious item: our time. > “You haven’t been busting your ass, Chinaski.” > I stared down at my shoes for some time. I didn’t know what to say. Then I looked at him. “I’ve given you my time. It’s all I’ve got to give—it’s all any man has. And for a pitiful buck and a quarter an hour.” > “Remember you begged for this job. You said your job was your second home.” > “…my time so that you can live in your big house on the hill and have all the things that go with it. If anybody has lost anything on this deal, on this arrangement…I’ve been the loser. Do you understand?” I think this quote is valid whatever your paycheck. If you're working full time you're probably getting screwed in the deal. [1]: some quotes: https://p1x3l.com/story/214/bukowski-factotum https://p1x3l.com/story/214/bukowski-factotum