5 ms·

That is really easy for Apple to do, with a limited range of hardware they can literally test every device that is receiving the update. Much harder for Microso

That is really easy for Apple to do, with a limited range of hardware they can literally test every device that is receiving the update. Much harder for Microsoft, who are trying to support a vast range of hardware.

yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago
That's true. So why is it that 7 was so much more stable? Certainly at first I could say that it's just because 7 has been around for eons and 10 is brand new, but it's been out for years now and we're still seeing things break (anecdotally, r/sysadmin was emphatically not happy with the last couple of updates). Is it this thing where they've declared 10 to be the last version and so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12, etc. including all the growing pains of a new release? Is it because Microsoft decided to throw out their entire QA division? I'm happy to agree that Microsoft has an extraordinary large problem space across which they try to maintain stability, but that doesn't seem to explain why they would have gotten worse at it.
- hiram112 9y ago
  I'm almost permanently ready to ditch Windows for good and move to MacOS and Linux. And I've been a Windows user since 3.1. If we're really moving to the equivalent of Windows 11 and 12, I must ask: who is paying for these releases (besides OEMs with new hardware)? I'm not paying the upgrade fee I paid for 98, XP, and 7 on old hardware. Microsoft is obviously not a charity and their devs don't work for free, and they have to recoup their costs and more. But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365, and even advertising on my desktop, along with now being volunteered by Microsoft to take on their QA as they force-install beta software on my PCs are NOT things I'm willing to exchange for the former $100 upgrade costs I've always willingly paid previously and made them a very profitable company. In other words, each newer update brings fewer features I want as a paying user, and more and more anti-features I'm not willing to trade for my privacy, time, and attention. The fact that they have to nerve to explicitly reset, upon each update, the settings that took me hours to find and apply - turning off Cortana, the telemetry (the most I can, anyway), all the privacy-invading phone / tablet features, the demands to sign-in to MS account, etc - pisses me off and makes it easier to swallow the issues with Linux and the absurb prices Apple charges.
  - spronkey 9y ago
    macOS is no better. It's getting worse too, High Sierra has been a clusterfuck all around.
    - pdimitar 9y ago
      Any examples? I do programming on my MacBook Pro 2015 with several databases and 10+ language runtimes installed and very rarely had any issue at all.
    - x0054 9y ago
      But unless things changed quite a bit (I am still on 10.11.6) doesn't Apple always give you the option to update or not update MacOS? Even with iOS it's a positive action, you have to click something to update, no? I am fine with that, I just want to do the updates on my schedule, not Apples and Microsoft's. On macOS I have a lot of dev stuff setup and I would be pretty pissed if it did an update without me specifically and affirmatively concerning to it.
  - pdimitar 9y ago
    Apple does charge absurd prices but their machines are very long-lasting and robust. Go to a service shop once a year for a full dust cleanup and maybe change of the thermal paste once every 2 years, and your MacBook can hum along for 7-10 years in total, easily. I am gathering money to buy the maxed out iMac Pro (~$13,100) but in the meantime I have nothing bad to say about the MBP 2015. Occasional stupid bugs do occur of course, like in any OS, but rarer than on my Windows 10 PC, and a restart fixes things which usually never resurface again. So yes they are expensive. I was a Linux/Windows and Android advocate most of my life but eventually conceded that Apple is simply much more comfortable, predictable and ergonomic (their displays don't tire my eyes as any other display I tried, including gaming displays with 144-200Hz refresh rate) and that I have better things to do with my life than to always do the OS authors' work for them. Much bonus points to them for actual privacy as well.
    - kerng 9y ago
      You have mostly disregarded the quality of the software which this discussion is focused on. Are you running Windows on your Mac? Apple's software quality isn't all that great either, they have had constant glitches the last couple releases.
- jimnotgym 9y ago
  > so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12, I think you are spot on with this, MS have pushed some really major updates, which would at least have been a service pack in the past, if not a new version. Not least I believe they have made some breaking changes to the update process which should do away with the enforced restarts in future

yjftsjthsd-h 9y ago

That's true. So why is it that 7 was so much more stable? Certainly at first I could say that it's just because 7 has been around for eons and 10 is brand new, but it's been out for years now and we're still seeing things break (anecdotally, r/sysadmin was emphatically not happy with the last couple of updates). Is it this thing where they've declared 10 to be the last version and so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12, etc. including all the growing pains of a new release? Is it because Microsoft decided to throw out their entire QA division? I'm happy to agree that Microsoft has an extraordinary large problem space across which they try to maintain stability, but that doesn't seem to explain why they would have gotten worse at it.

hiram112 9y ago
I'm almost permanently ready to ditch Windows for good and move to MacOS and Linux. And I've been a Windows user since 3.1. If we're really moving to the equivalent of Windows 11 and 12, I must ask: who is paying for these releases (besides OEMs with new hardware)? I'm not paying the upgrade fee I paid for 98, XP, and 7 on old hardware. Microsoft is obviously not a charity and their devs don't work for free, and they have to recoup their costs and more. But telemetry, tie-ins to other MS products like XBox, media subscriptions, Azure and Office 365, and even advertising on my desktop, along with now being volunteered by Microsoft to take on their QA as they force-install beta software on my PCs are NOT things I'm willing to exchange for the former $100 upgrade costs I've always willingly paid previously and made them a very profitable company. In other words, each newer update brings fewer features I want as a paying user, and more and more anti-features I'm not willing to trade for my privacy, time, and attention. The fact that they have to nerve to explicitly reset, upon each update, the settings that took me hours to find and apply - turning off Cortana, the telemetry (the most I can, anyway), all the privacy-invading phone / tablet features, the demands to sign-in to MS account, etc - pisses me off and makes it easier to swallow the issues with Linux and the absurb prices Apple charges.
- spronkey 9y ago
  macOS is no better. It's getting worse too, High Sierra has been a clusterfuck all around.
  - pdimitar 9y ago
    Any examples? I do programming on my MacBook Pro 2015 with several databases and 10+ language runtimes installed and very rarely had any issue at all.
  - x0054 9y ago
    But unless things changed quite a bit (I am still on 10.11.6) doesn't Apple always give you the option to update or not update MacOS? Even with iOS it's a positive action, you have to click something to update, no? I am fine with that, I just want to do the updates on my schedule, not Apples and Microsoft's. On macOS I have a lot of dev stuff setup and I would be pretty pissed if it did an update without me specifically and affirmatively concerning to it.
- pdimitar 9y ago
  Apple does charge absurd prices but their machines are very long-lasting and robust. Go to a service shop once a year for a full dust cleanup and maybe change of the thermal paste once every 2 years, and your MacBook can hum along for 7-10 years in total, easily. I am gathering money to buy the maxed out iMac Pro (~$13,100) but in the meantime I have nothing bad to say about the MBP 2015. Occasional stupid bugs do occur of course, like in any OS, but rarer than on my Windows 10 PC, and a restart fixes things which usually never resurface again. So yes they are expensive. I was a Linux/Windows and Android advocate most of my life but eventually conceded that Apple is simply much more comfortable, predictable and ergonomic (their displays don't tire my eyes as any other display I tried, including gaming displays with 144-200Hz refresh rate) and that I have better things to do with my life than to always do the OS authors' work for them. Much bonus points to them for actual privacy as well.
  - kerng 9y ago
    You have mostly disregarded the quality of the software which this discussion is focused on. Are you running Windows on your Mac? Apple's software quality isn't all that great either, they have had constant glitches the last couple releases.
jimnotgym 9y ago
> so what we're seeing is major updates that would have been 11, 12, I think you are spot on with this, MS have pushed some really major updates, which would at least have been a service pack in the past, if not a new version. Not least I believe they have made some breaking changes to the update process which should do away with the enforced restarts in future