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A tale of three cultures. I had been to reddit and digg many times, but have never registered and never posted. I came to hacker news years ago, jumped right

by edw519 16y ago

A tale of three cultures. I had been to reddit and digg many times, but have never registered and never posted. I came to hacker news years ago, jumped right in, and never looked back. Why? We can talk about all kinds of complex criteria regarding social networking, community building, people behavior, systems behavior, etc., etc., etc., but let's not overlook the most basic thing of all: it's simple. Simple font, simple layout, threaded conversations, limited options. Easy to read, easy to explore. No "sub-reddits", no fancy filters, no complex algorithms begging to be gamed (well maybe). None of the stuff that people keep asking for to make us "more like digg or reddit". It's so simple that we actually focus more on the content than anything else. There's a lesson for all of us developers in there.

vog 16y ago
Also, HN is fast. Well, this might be a sole implication of its simpleness: I need fewer steps to accomplish things, and the pages load faster because there's less stuff to transfer and less stuff for the browser to render. However, it might also be the case that the HN folks performed better optimizations than Reddit, or that HN needs less optimization because it has fewer visitors.
jokermatt999 16y ago
However, there is a price to all this: Hacker News will never be commercially viable. I know it's never supposed to be; its purpose is high quality conversation and links. Still, it's a good idea to note something like that if you're pointing to HN as an example for developers. HN is very successful at what it's supposed to be, but profitable is one thing it is not.
- forensic 16y ago
  I don't really believe that. I think HN could easily be monetized by charging subscription fees. The quality of the content is so much higher than your typical magazine and people pay tons of money for those. Another way to monetize it would be limited ads. The site has a captive, highly-targeted, highly-influencial and wealthy audience. I bet companies would kill to put ads on HN. HN is a proof of concept for a small, targeted, curated social community thing.
  - kylemathews 16y ago
    Totally. I'd pay at least $100/year without thinking and I'm a poor bootstrapper.
- forensic 16y ago
  P.S. If you consider HN to be pg's personal playground, conceptually speaking it may already be monetized due to pg feeling that the knowledge/value/exposure he gains from HN leads to him being more profitable. It's sort of a secondary form of profitability but it's totally a legit profit in my mind. It should encourage other millionaires to start and curate online communities around their interests.
  - jokermatt999 16y ago
    Yes, my intention was not to imply HN isn't successful. It's incredibly successful imo; it's the best example that a good, quality community can be built and not lose focus. However, it is currently not economically successful. It could be monetized, maybe. However, subscriptions would drastically lower the number of commenters (better? Worse? Not sure.). Ads might be a good solution, because they could be very targetted, since this is a niche community.
    - eru 16y ago
      A freemium model might work. Free will be as it is like now. Premium might offer some neat and personalized features---like mixing your own HN from the votes of people you select. Comments and submissions by free and premium users will be treated the same. So premium buys you a more interesting presentation, but not a bigger say in any debate.
    - RickHull 16y ago
      > However, it is currently not economically successful. It could be monetized, maybe. Au contraire. It may be a "cost center", but I have no doubt that it has been enormously beneficial for YCombinator's bottom line, as a marketing effort.
      - rmk 16y ago
        I agree with this. Also, I have seen many of the yc companies post job ads here. Have they been successful in recruiting? If so, that is another way HN has helped yc.
      - 16y ago
michael_dorfman 16y ago
It's so simple that we actually focus more on the content than anything else Let's also not forget the fact that the content is aimed at a fairly narrow niche. If HN were aiming for mainstream popularity, I don't think it would work so well. Now, presumably this focus may also be the case in some sub-reddits-- but then you fall into the opposite problem; the permitted topics can be too narrow. Put another way: there's a complex set of mutually reinforcing relationships between the community, the content, and the system. I don't think you can reduce the cultural differences between Digg, Reddit and HN to any of the three.
naner 16y ago
The subreddits are the most interesting part of reddit. Literally anyone can create a place to discuss any topic. No matter how big, small, or esoteric the community is. That's why I really don't think reddit has a single culture. Though this article appears to be more about the founder/business culture than site cultures. In fact, HackerNews isn't much different than having a "HackerNews" subreddit. The open source aspect of reddit is also interesting. LessWrong.com is probably the most successful outgrowth of that.

by edw519 16y ago

vog 16y ago

Also, HN is fast. Well, this might be a sole implication of its simpleness: I need fewer steps to accomplish things, and the pages load faster because there's less stuff to transfer and less stuff for the browser to render. However, it might also be the case that the HN folks performed better optimizations than Reddit, or that HN needs less optimization because it has fewer visitors.

jokermatt999 16y ago

However, there is a price to all this: Hacker News will never be commercially viable. I know it's never supposed to be; its purpose is high quality conversation and links. Still, it's a good idea to note something like that if you're pointing to HN as an example for developers. HN is very successful at what it's supposed to be, but profitable is one thing it is not.

forensic 16y ago
I don't really believe that. I think HN could easily be monetized by charging subscription fees. The quality of the content is so much higher than your typical magazine and people pay tons of money for those. Another way to monetize it would be limited ads. The site has a captive, highly-targeted, highly-influencial and wealthy audience. I bet companies would kill to put ads on HN. HN is a proof of concept for a small, targeted, curated social community thing.
- kylemathews 16y ago
  Totally. I'd pay at least $100/year without thinking and I'm a poor bootstrapper.
forensic 16y ago
P.S. If you consider HN to be pg's personal playground, conceptually speaking it may already be monetized due to pg feeling that the knowledge/value/exposure he gains from HN leads to him being more profitable. It's sort of a secondary form of profitability but it's totally a legit profit in my mind. It should encourage other millionaires to start and curate online communities around their interests.
- jokermatt999 16y ago
  Yes, my intention was not to imply HN isn't successful. It's incredibly successful imo; it's the best example that a good, quality community can be built and not lose focus. However, it is currently not economically successful. It could be monetized, maybe. However, subscriptions would drastically lower the number of commenters (better? Worse? Not sure.). Ads might be a good solution, because they could be very targetted, since this is a niche community.
  - eru 16y ago
    A freemium model might work. Free will be as it is like now. Premium might offer some neat and personalized features---like mixing your own HN from the votes of people you select. Comments and submissions by free and premium users will be treated the same. So premium buys you a more interesting presentation, but not a bigger say in any debate.
  - RickHull 16y ago
    > However, it is currently not economically successful. It could be monetized, maybe. Au contraire. It may be a "cost center", but I have no doubt that it has been enormously beneficial for YCombinator's bottom line, as a marketing effort.
    - rmk 16y ago
      I agree with this. Also, I have seen many of the yc companies post job ads here. Have they been successful in recruiting? If so, that is another way HN has helped yc.
    - 16y ago

michael_dorfman 16y ago

It's so simple that we actually focus more on the content than anything else Let's also not forget the fact that the content is aimed at a fairly narrow niche. If HN were aiming for mainstream popularity, I don't think it would work so well. Now, presumably this focus may also be the case in some sub-reddits-- but then you fall into the opposite problem; the permitted topics can be too narrow. Put another way: there's a complex set of mutually reinforcing relationships between the community, the content, and the system. I don't think you can reduce the cultural differences between Digg, Reddit and HN to any of the three.

naner 16y ago

The subreddits are the most interesting part of reddit. Literally anyone can create a place to discuss any topic. No matter how big, small, or esoteric the community is. That's why I really don't think reddit has a single culture. Though this article appears to be more about the founder/business culture than site cultures. In fact, HackerNews isn't much different than having a "HackerNews" subreddit. The open source aspect of reddit is also interesting. LessWrong.com is probably the most successful outgrowth of that.