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For some historical perspective: on the Ferdinand Magellan expedition about 230 men out of 270, including Magellan himself, died of violence and/or disease (1 i

For some historical perspective: on the Ferdinand Magellan expedition about 230 men out of 270, including Magellan himself, died of violence and/or disease (1 in 1.2 chance of death). As Musk has said in the past, a safety first philosophy and space travel don't mix. Safety third might work.

calcifer 9y ago
Than it sounds like Musk is disagreeing with SpaceX. From the article: > SpaceX says it is serious about flying people safely and is going to great lengths to study every aspect of the vehicle, down to individual valves, so that it will meet and surpass the 1-in-270 chance-of-death metric, said Benji Reed, the director of SpaceX's commercial crew program. > When Reed was down at Cape Canaveral, Florida, on a recent trip, he came across a room on a special tour where the astronauts' families from the shuttle program used to wait ahead of the rocket launch. > They were stunned to see that a whiteboard with drawings made by the children of the crew lost in the 2003 Columbia disaster was still there, preserved. > "That really drives it home," Reed said. "This isn't just the people that we're flying — these are all of their families. So we take this extremely seriously, and we understand that our job is to fly people safely and bring them back safely. To do that you have to humanize it. You have to see them as your friends and as your colleagues."
- DennisP 9y ago
  Not to mention, SpaceX wants to do routine suborbital passenger flights with the same rocket they use for flights to Mars. Safety has to be an extremely high priority for that to happen.
- icc97 9y ago
  > SpaceX says it is serious about flying people safely > So we take this extremely seriously Musk didn't say they don't take it seriously, he said it's not the highest priority. But also there's a difference between what Space X says and what it does. I don't think we'll fully know the extent of Space X's safety consideration until some astronauts die in take off. NASA are cautious because they've had people die and that lives long in the memory. Space X engineers haven't had to go through the process of finding out which one of them missed the bug that killed people.
  - Tepix 9y ago
    Quite a few SpaceX employees came from NASA.
mathinpens 9y ago
that's easy to say when its your car/money on the launchpad and not your body...
- alexandercrohde 9y ago
  Well, I suppose that'll be a choice for the astronauts, just as it was for Nasa astronauts.
  - mathinpens 9y ago
    indeed.
empath75 9y ago
Good luck getting astronauts to sign up for that today.
- TangoTrotFox 9y ago
  SpaceX's goal is to colonize Mars. And the first expedition there will undoubtedly be extremely dangerous. Even just ignoring the dangers getting there. When you're there you're literally 140 million miles away from the nearest aid, and you're doing something that literally no human has ever done before in an environment where if you breathe the atmosphere, you die. If you run out of electricty, you die. If you're exposed to the pressure of the atmosphere, you die. If your food resources go bad, you die. If your air filtering system breaks, you die. And so on. And I would wager that they will have extremely qualified people lining up out the door to take on that risk, and even pay for it if necessary. The ability to be part of something incredible and the immense challenge and possibility there are going to be an incredible driver for the right sort of people. For reference look at our developments leading up to the Apollo mission. The danger there cannot be overstated, and guys like Buzz Aldrin aren't just adrenalin junky pilots. He received his doctorate from MIT. His thesis (Line-of-Sight Guidance Techniques for Manned Orbital Rendezvous) having the dedication, "In the hopes that this work may in some way contribute to their exploration of space, this is dedicated to the crew members of this country’s present and future manned space programs. If only I could join them in their exciting endeavors!".
forapurpose 9y ago
I sure hope the 16th century is not the standard of safety for the 21st. Who cares what risks Magellan took? Should the standards of medical practice and sanitation from the 16th century also be applied now? There's a deep moral responsibility to respect life, and a calculation about benefit from the risk. Getting other people killed for your benefit is wrong. As a society, we need to do everything possible to protect them. The benefits are exciting, but not worth saving money on cheaper fuel.

calcifer 9y ago

Than it sounds like Musk is disagreeing with SpaceX. From the article: > SpaceX says it is serious about flying people safely and is going to great lengths to study every aspect of the vehicle, down to individual valves, so that it will meet and surpass the 1-in-270 chance-of-death metric, said Benji Reed, the director of SpaceX's commercial crew program. > When Reed was down at Cape Canaveral, Florida, on a recent trip, he came across a room on a special tour where the astronauts' families from the shuttle program used to wait ahead of the rocket launch. > They were stunned to see that a whiteboard with drawings made by the children of the crew lost in the 2003 Columbia disaster was still there, preserved. > "That really drives it home," Reed said. "This isn't just the people that we're flying — these are all of their families. So we take this extremely seriously, and we understand that our job is to fly people safely and bring them back safely. To do that you have to humanize it. You have to see them as your friends and as your colleagues."

DennisP 9y ago
Not to mention, SpaceX wants to do routine suborbital passenger flights with the same rocket they use for flights to Mars. Safety has to be an extremely high priority for that to happen.
icc97 9y ago
> SpaceX says it is serious about flying people safely > So we take this extremely seriously Musk didn't say they don't take it seriously, he said it's not the highest priority. But also there's a difference between what Space X says and what it does. I don't think we'll fully know the extent of Space X's safety consideration until some astronauts die in take off. NASA are cautious because they've had people die and that lives long in the memory. Space X engineers haven't had to go through the process of finding out which one of them missed the bug that killed people.
- Tepix 9y ago
  Quite a few SpaceX employees came from NASA.

mathinpens 9y ago

that's easy to say when its your car/money on the launchpad and not your body...

alexandercrohde 9y ago
Well, I suppose that'll be a choice for the astronauts, just as it was for Nasa astronauts.
- mathinpens 9y ago
  indeed.

empath75 9y ago

Good luck getting astronauts to sign up for that today.

TangoTrotFox 9y ago
SpaceX's goal is to colonize Mars. And the first expedition there will undoubtedly be extremely dangerous. Even just ignoring the dangers getting there. When you're there you're literally 140 million miles away from the nearest aid, and you're doing something that literally no human has ever done before in an environment where if you breathe the atmosphere, you die. If you run out of electricty, you die. If you're exposed to the pressure of the atmosphere, you die. If your food resources go bad, you die. If your air filtering system breaks, you die. And so on. And I would wager that they will have extremely qualified people lining up out the door to take on that risk, and even pay for it if necessary. The ability to be part of something incredible and the immense challenge and possibility there are going to be an incredible driver for the right sort of people. For reference look at our developments leading up to the Apollo mission. The danger there cannot be overstated, and guys like Buzz Aldrin aren't just adrenalin junky pilots. He received his doctorate from MIT. His thesis (Line-of-Sight Guidance Techniques for Manned Orbital Rendezvous) having the dedication, "In the hopes that this work may in some way contribute to their exploration of space, this is dedicated to the crew members of this country’s present and future manned space programs. If only I could join them in their exciting endeavors!".

forapurpose 9y ago

I sure hope the 16th century is not the standard of safety for the 21st. Who cares what risks Magellan took? Should the standards of medical practice and sanitation from the 16th century also be applied now? There's a deep moral responsibility to respect life, and a calculation about benefit from the risk. Getting other people killed for your benefit is wrong. As a society, we need to do everything possible to protect them. The benefits are exciting, but not worth saving money on cheaper fuel.