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> It's whether they're predictable enough I'm used to the law going easy for a first offence, or an accidental breach. Occasionally we have separated offences

> It's whether they're predictable enough I'm used to the law going easy for a first offence, or an accidental breach. Occasionally we have separated offences (murder and manslaughter for example), but most of the time there's just a maximum that is reserved for the most wilful, or repeat or extreme cases. No one has ever been bankrupted by our unlimited fine for cannabis possession (most get a caution or trivial fine). Apart from anything else means are assessed before any fine is levied. If you're on minimum wage a £100 fine is going to hurt rather more than to a millionaire. So means are assessed first to try and remain proportionate. So how is it done in the US? I only have what I've gleaned from the media. Does the judge or regulator enforcing really have no discretion of penalty or always seek the maximum? I find it very difficult to believe that the entire range of penalties and when they apply are spelt out in every law and judges or regulators have no discretion or common sense. Movie "experience" seems to indicate a lot more horse trading goes on. Do our legal systems diverge so much that US citizens completely distrust theirs to do anything but bankrupt them for minutiae whilst we remain certain they can and will be proportionate? > ...extraterritorial limits. I think that's bad, and I don't see how it makes the EU's reach any better I'm somewhat uncomfortable with some of the global precedents myself. On the other hand I'm not sure how it is avoided in a world that is so globalised and so many internet services have essentially ignored EU privacy and data protection. So what's the alternative? We're not enthusiastic to adopt the US model of privacy and many internet services aren't even paying lip service to our (too) limited protections. How else to fix it? EU wide Facebook blocks seem like a fine way to start a trade war!

tripletao 8y ago
> Do our legal systems diverge so much that US citizens completely distrust theirs to do anything but bankrupt them for minutiae whilst we remain certain they can and will be proportionate? I think...maybe? It's a continuum, and a legal system with zero judicial discretion would either require impossibly detailed law or yield obviously unjust results. I don't think the model in the USA is strictly adversarial--like, it's not entirely that the regulators are supposed to punish you to the maximum extent of the law as written, and if that's unjust then blame the legislators. It's closer, though. This has advantages (less opportunity for selective enforcement) and disadvantages (increased complexity of law, greater opportunity for loopholes). > I'm somewhat uncomfortable with some of the global precedents myself. On the other hand I'm not sure how it is avoided in a world that is so globalised and so many internet services have essentially ignored EU privacy and data protection. So what's the alternative? Any large player has operations within the EU, making the extraterritorial reach unnecessary. For smaller players, I see lots of unexplored opportunity to regulate indirectly through ad networks, payment processors, etc.

tripletao 8y ago

> Do our legal systems diverge so much that US citizens completely distrust theirs to do anything but bankrupt them for minutiae whilst we remain certain they can and will be proportionate? I think...maybe? It's a continuum, and a legal system with zero judicial discretion would either require impossibly detailed law or yield obviously unjust results. I don't think the model in the USA is strictly adversarial--like, it's not entirely that the regulators are supposed to punish you to the maximum extent of the law as written, and if that's unjust then blame the legislators. It's closer, though. This has advantages (less opportunity for selective enforcement) and disadvantages (increased complexity of law, greater opportunity for loopholes). > I'm somewhat uncomfortable with some of the global precedents myself. On the other hand I'm not sure how it is avoided in a world that is so globalised and so many internet services have essentially ignored EU privacy and data protection. So what's the alternative? Any large player has operations within the EU, making the extraterritorial reach unnecessary. For smaller players, I see lots of unexplored opportunity to regulate indirectly through ad networks, payment processors, etc.