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Fuck You Startup World (2016)
- giardini 8y agoFellow seems seriously f*-up. Perhaps a mandatory vacation is in the cards?
- startupflix 8y agoIndeed :p
- coldtea 8y agoOr, you know, seriously sane, and it's the things he complains about that are fucked up.
- minimaxir 8y agoThis was posted in (2016), where it was flagged to death due to drama. HN discussion around that time: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12682944 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=12682944 My comment from back then: > Although I genuinely miss Valleywag and all the absurdity that it covered (e.g. Clinkle), I'm not sure if this is a fair critique of startup culture outside of having the excuse to say the F word a lot. As someone living in San Francisco, I can say that there are more to startups and startup culture than the stereotypes seen in Medium thought pieces and the Hacker News front page, although given the end of this particular Medium thought piece, that may be the point. Given that the OP now works at WeWork, I suppose the startup world can't be f'ed forever.
- askafriend 8y agoThe only thing I got from this post is that I want to seriously avoid working with a person who expresses themselves in such an unproductive way. Look, just because people care about some things that you don’t seem to care about doesn’t mean you get to step into their world and tell them that everything they do is wrong using vulgar language. If you don’t like the culture, leave. If you think aspects of the culture can be improved, then help in identifying the problems and offer constructive solutions. Instead this guy just says “Fuck XYZ” a hundred times and thinks he has some unique insight to offer.
- jahvo 8y ago> The only thing I got from this post is that I want to seriously avoid working with a person who expresses themselves in such an unproductive way. Everything in this world is about being productive
- thesagan 8y agoSome consider it an ideology called “Economism”
- ahussain 8y agoI remember reading a great article a while ago about how, since the industrial revolution, it is common to judge people against the same criteria that we judge machines. So we ask about "productivity", "efficiency", and "time in operation", rather than the classical virtues like "judgement", "integrity" and "humility". I wish I could remember the name of that piece.
- zdragnar 8y agoWhy would you want to work with someone who actively undermines the productive capacity of the workplace? All that means is everyone else has to work harder to balance them out.
- warty 8y agoThere are plenty of people who'd say frat culture undermines the productive capacity of the workplace, likewise with alcohol or being able to hit on others, or difficulties people have because hookup culture is now a thing. Both extremes of that are clearly terrible... there's really no right answer.
- zdragnar 8y agoI don't disagree. My comment was specifically geared towards the comment thread calling out productive communication, and whether or not that's a valid characteristic of a desirable coworker (as well as the inverse).
- kylecazar 8y agoFor those criticizing the delivery, I think the author is borrowing from a classic Ed Norton mirror rant from the film 25th hour. Probably on youtube.
- praneshp 8y agoSecond most elegant use of fucks, after the Wire scene.
- walshemj 8y agoI take it you have not seen "the thick of it" and that's just middle class actors playing a role- I do know people who are the real deal :-)
- Buldak 8y agoFunny, that rant turns into a love letter to New York by the end (Norton is expressing his frustration at what he'll miss when he goes to prison). If this Medium rant has a similar denouement it's even more subtle.
- colinbartlett 8y agoIt's a great scene, which many interpret as more of a love letter to the city than actual vitriol. By the end, one realizes Ed Norton's character, Monty, is mostly mad at himself. One can arguably make a similar interpretation of this piece. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OYe3uk8Fi8 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4OYe3uk8Fi8
- blklivesmatter 8y agoWell all I have to say is... FUCK YOU!
- TAForObvReasons 8y ago> But more than all, start-up world, fuck you for making me one of you. There are plenty of bootstrapped startups quietly humming along, working normal hours, where the employees enjoy life and family time without engaging in the culture. You don't hear about them as much.
- eropple 8y agoAround here, bootstrapped companies with a successful, but not world-shattering, income stream and business model are referred to--sometimes pejoratively, sometimes not--as "lifestyle businesses." I'm not aware of many aside from Atlassian who, in the purely-tech software-y space, really would have the kind of income streams to suggest HN's definition of "startup". And those kinds of business are much more my thing, so I am not throwing shade, but there is a difference.
- jrowley 8y agoI understand and empathize with the sentiment but the rhetorical style really takes away from this piece for me. Peak medium right here. Comes off sounding like a pissed off child more than real critique. Not worth reading in my opinion.
- volkfish55 8y agoI think if you take away the f words, all he is really doing is describing the startup culture, company he works in, nothing more. Albeit in a weird humorous way, maybe to get quick popularity on medium or raise up the coolness factor? In the end he pretty much sums it up as, thank you for making me one of you, just worded differently. Some people just like attention..
- warent 8y agoThat very last line of the article confused me because throughout the article I thought it was a critique of the startup world, but then his message became mixed up. Was he showing self-awareness, or was this whole thing just a tongue-in-cheek fistbump to the startup world? Maybe that's the point. No idea but it took away quite a bit of the value for me.
- evrydayhustling 8y agoYeah, the article was never constructive but before that last line it was at least punk: pissed off and doesn't owe you a thorough explanation. But that line really drives home how little was said.
- riantogo 8y agoIt’s meant to be a light hearted read (I think). And it is resonating with a lot of folks because it is fairly accurate. Kind of like how my wife (not in tech) thinks of HBO’s Silicon Valley as a comedy show while I think of it as a documentary.
- bb88 8y ago
- jkFeiwi 8y agoCame here to complain about the drinking. When I worked for a startup, they had days where the company bought people beer. - I don't drink, but I felt pressure to do it anyway, so I could be part of the team. - There was an alcoholic on the team. Can't imagine what that was like for him. - People would inevitably get drunk and do stupid shit. I remember when a senior employee got drunk and completely embarrassed herself in front of a client. She was fired the next day. Can't we enjoy beer at home or at the bar? Why do we have to drink at work? I get the feeling that for some people, startups are just a way to make college last for ever.
- walshemj 8y agoWhy do you have a problem with the company buying people a beer on some days? would you also object to a company meal put to celebrate a major release. I've never seen people forced to drink alcohol at social events BTW. In the real world you have to realise that not everyone is exactly like you and how to get along and work with people from different backgrounds and cultures.
- ModernMech 8y ago> would you also object to a company meal put to celebrate a major release Not at all. I would object though if that meal only included dead animals. > I've never seen people forced to drink alcohol at social events BTW. Social pressure is very real. > In the real world you have to realise that not everyone is exactly like you and how to get along and work with people from different backgrounds and cultures. Very true. People need to realize that other people have very complex relationships with alcohol. For some people it's a fun party drink that helps you socialize. For others, it's a poison drink that ruined their family and perhaps took a loved one from them. In my opinion, being more sensitive to the latter is more important than catering to the former.
- donttrack 8y agoCould people then please just stop commenting on people who don't drink. I stopped drinking and to be honest, it is a pain in the ass to listen to lame comments from people trying to be funny.
- nottorp 8y agoHmm. "Fuck reading a book a week. No one can read that fast. Let me repeat that -NO ONE CAN FUCKING READ THAT FAST." He/she/it thinks so? Maybe if it's a useless self improvement book. Perhaps he/she/it should practice their reading skills...
- Karrot_Kream 8y agoI thought the point was more that the types described in the article were all about consuming self-help or experience books, like Gladwell or Lean Startup, and weren't books by Dostoevsky or books on business case studies or something that actually required critical thinking skills.
- taneq 8y agoA book a week is easy if you don't have anything else to do. I used to read a book every 2-3 days when I was in highschool. Now with kids and family and my company going nuts I'm lucky if I can get 10 pages in per night.
- nottorp 8y agoIt's all your fault, sorry. I have kids and family and a company too.
- filesystemdude 8y agoOkay. So the parent poster prioritizes his kids and family over reading. And you're guilting him for that?
- nottorp 8y agoReply to filesystem dude: He isn't prioritizing kids and family over reading, he is prioritizing his private entertainment time to not include reading. I can't believe all he has left is time for 10 pages per week.
- ModernMech 8y ago
- mey 8y agoThere is some throwing out the baby with the bath water here. It's taken me a decade to understand what I value in a working environment, everyone should examine that for themselves, especially people straight out of college. Many of the things listed are tools used by startups to attract young, impressionable people and keep them at the office at all hours. I disagree with that mentality, but it took me a long time to identify that incentive. 10x, Rockstar, Ninja, open office, stock over cash all tend to make me go the other way at this point. There is also the issue of sweating blood for someone else's success or for toliet paper.
- walshemj 8y agoThat's depends stock can be a much more tax efficient way of remuneration - though in the USA employee stock options do seem to be taxed excessively and dont have enough safe guards for the employee
- zzzeek 8y agoF*ck ranty clickbait tech bro stories on Medium?
- mkagenius 8y ago> pushing to production 100 times a day Its just automation -- nothing to be bragged about. Silly stuff we all love.
- rgbrenner 8y agoIm not sure about some of these.. but this one is so wrong I feel like it should be addressed: Fuck reading a book a week. No one can read that fast. Let me repeat that -NO ONE CAN FUCKING READ THAT FAST. Yes you can. If you find this difficult, please start reading regularly. You'll get better at it over time. This should not be a challenge.
- vhost- 8y agoPlenty of people are judged for this shit when they have reading disabilities and learning disabilities. Fuck that advice.
- rgbrenner 8y agoOk.. that's different. The quote says "no one".. it doesn't say, "I have a learning disability, and would appreciate some understanding and accommodation from my coworkers."
- nkcmr 8y agoI find it somewhat difficult. Any tips for trying to get to that rate?
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- randomsearch 8y agoJust read. You’ll get faster. You don’t need to think about it or rush, just take the time you feel you need and you’ll soon get faster whilst still maintaining the same level of comprehension.
- CodesInChaos 8y agoBooks differ so much in size and difficulty that this is a rather meaningless metric. Even on the fiction side the differences in size are huge (typically 100 pages to 1300 pages) and the ease of reading differs as well. On the non fiction side the differences in reading speed can be 100x depending on difficulty and familiarity with the material. For example, I'd consider the workload of one semester of my university program equivalent to about three medium sized books, which amounts to two months per book, without a fulltime job on the side.
- lscotte 8y agoThis title, in addition to being obvious click bait, contains inappropriate and offensive language. Profanity is generally used by people too stupid to come up with something more intelligent to say.
- staticautomatic 8y agoYou might consider reviewing the research on people who frequently use profanity.
- rawrmaan 8y agoHope you’re not getting too much saddle rash on that high horse!
- Implicated 8y agoI recently went through an interview process at a downtown SF startup, from their words I 'aced' all technical aspects and they were 'dying' to get me in town for an on-site, final interview. What did the on-site interview consist of? I was scheduled quick meetings with various people in the chain of command, all of whom I had already spoken with (some at great length) and then I was to accompany the whole team out for drinks/happy hour at a local pub. I don't drink. I told them I don't drink. This was a culture fit test, I never went to the interview as that wasn't a team I wanted to be a part of. I want to write code, work with people who are better/smarter/more experienced than I am in order to better myself - happy hour isn't going to do that.
- badcede 8y agoYou didn't give them a chance to respond to the information that you don't drink?
- taysic 8y agoAs someone who also rejected a company because their drinking culture seemed like a big part of their identity (and I don't drink), it depends. In this case, I could sense it was big enough of a contrast to who I am that it wasn't the type of space I wanted to work. There's enough fish in sea to find a better fit.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago> I don’t fucking care about the complexity of this code block because I can afford another EC2 instance Ironically, these words are a good example of start-up mentality.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y agoIt's a great pity this article got flagged so quickly as it's really interesting, despite the form.
- dvfjsdhgfv 8y ago> using no staging environment This is really bad. I see it very often and I really, really don't understand the reason for that.
- badcede 8y agoThe startup world is big enough that this says little more than "Fuck You World".