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I have a do-nothing job as a junior level dev at a bank. I got put on a poorly managed team that is supporting an outdated and undocumented application that is

I have a do-nothing job as a junior level dev at a bank. I got put on a poorly managed team that is supporting an outdated and undocumented application that is super complex. So the amount of value I can add without a little bit of hand holding (never get it) is very low. So I just do the minimum to get by and seem like I'm on the team. I hate it. Best way out? Maybe I just need to apply to a new job and take a jump. I hate the banking domain, everything seems pointless to me and adds zero value to society. Feel stuck. The good thing is I work 9-5 (if that) and can spend my time doing other things. But of course it is difficult to pull yourself up and make something of that free time. I mostly just work out, study human languages, go to concerts.

horatiocain 8y ago
What location are you in? In my experience, Seattle and Boulder have open slots for junior devs that pay pretty okay, just show up and be ready to sling some code. Agree banking is the pits. That said, it sounds like you have a pretty good gig. Might want to start shopping around.
- throw_this_one 8y ago
  NYC, making close to 90k at age 26. Part of me doesn't even know if I like dev! But I think it's because I was never on an energetic team getting stuff done, which would probably be enjoyable (even if the domain itself is worthless imo). I don't know if I have the skills to freelance/consult at this point, but I'd love to do that while traveling (not hedonistic, but stay in a place for a few months and learn the language, build groups of friends, etc). I think I'd like to either stay in NYC and work on something meaningful or just make a lot of money, or just go off and do the freelance/consult/build a standard niche marketing product type of online business. At least I'd get the travel/language bug out of my system and have a good story to tell.
  - frou_dh 8y ago
    Here's a human factor that makes it even worse... Being aware of the low standards unfortunately does not stop one from internalising them at some level as the correct way to operate. So they do not only stunt your current growth as a developer, but also your potential future growth, too.
    - throw_this_one 8y ago
      Agreed. It's just a downward spiral and my fault is that I've stuck myself in it for so long. So maybe it is worth bailing asap? My 401k vests in August, which would be about 8k extra. I don't want to be a developer even 5 years down the line. For me it is simply to develop this toolset, so that I can better understand how to build solutions for REAL problems (banking doesn't seem real enough to me). Something in the environmental or healthcare field seems interesting to me.
- dabockster 8y ago
  Seattle here. Most of the junior roles seem to be subcontracting around here. Unless you can get a referral, you're probably getting ghosted.
da02 8y ago
What was your educational and professional background that got you the job at the bank?
- throw_this_one 8y ago
  I have two degrees, Computer Science and Finance. It was my first job out of school 3 years ago. I think they just wanted "smart" grads. The way they placed you into teams was terrible and I feel like I haven't learned much at all in 3 years, but maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit. Have learned a ton through HN. Banking just seems pointless in the grand scheme, and I'd like to spend my 20's working towards something more meaningful than only a steady paycheck (still grateful I have that).
todayThrowaway 8y ago
I have a do-nothing job as a junior dev in a different area, but what you describe is my day-to-day. Maintaining outdated, undocumented applications on obsolete and unsupported hardware and software platforms. Everyone here knows how to do a good enough patch job to keep things moving smoothly. I openly complain a lot about the lack of any dev process - literally people do whatever they want, including copying the entire source tree to make changes - and absence of any tools. The usual response to change is "go for it and show us it will work", but I'm not familiar enough with the software to go off on a rewrite on my own. And honestly if I had that level of skill I'd be a consultant charge 3x what I get paid. I have sought a different job in the past and ended up here. Part of me feels like I wouldn't cut it at a "real" dev job and I'm not secure enough to risk a cushy job for the adventure. But it does drive me crazy. p.s. the guy next to me is sleeping in his chair - this is not unusual.
- kazinator 8y ago
  One problem is that people understandably don't want to create a dev process for maintaining outdated applications on obsolete, unsupported hardware. That's simply be because a nice dev process is something that looks forward into the future. You do it because you believe you're developing some nice stuff that you believe will be going somewhere.
  - todayThrowaway 8y ago
    I see dev process less for sustainability of the code and more for the sake of sanity. I have been asked to rebuild tools that we only have the executable for and no source. I think the problem lies more in that people are set in their ways and don't want to change. I'm not so hellbent on using hip new tools - like git or an issue tracker - but I push really hard to get people to communicate and interact. Unfortunately, everyone has carved out a niche and there's an understanding to stay out of each others' part of the project.
- throw_this_one 8y ago
  Haha wow very similar. There's a guy here in a neighboring team that I used to work under that literally just falls asleep at his desk and snores. Comes in at 9:20, leaves at 3 some days. Which general domain or area are you working in? Is this your first job? I also have some imposter syndrome about being a "real" dev. I think that's because there's so many ways to go from here. Whereas, for example, if you were a doctor you would basically lock in your area of practice and then put your head down and get it done. For us, you could: build your own product, climb corporate ladder at BigCorp, startup world, freelance, freelance while traveling, consult, be a product manager instead, etc. The cushy part is tough to give up, but the free hours don't really make up for the existential dilemma that eats at my soul every day... I know right, first world problems.

horatiocain 8y ago

What location are you in? In my experience, Seattle and Boulder have open slots for junior devs that pay pretty okay, just show up and be ready to sling some code. Agree banking is the pits. That said, it sounds like you have a pretty good gig. Might want to start shopping around.

throw_this_one 8y ago
NYC, making close to 90k at age 26. Part of me doesn't even know if I like dev! But I think it's because I was never on an energetic team getting stuff done, which would probably be enjoyable (even if the domain itself is worthless imo). I don't know if I have the skills to freelance/consult at this point, but I'd love to do that while traveling (not hedonistic, but stay in a place for a few months and learn the language, build groups of friends, etc). I think I'd like to either stay in NYC and work on something meaningful or just make a lot of money, or just go off and do the freelance/consult/build a standard niche marketing product type of online business. At least I'd get the travel/language bug out of my system and have a good story to tell.
- frou_dh 8y ago
  Here's a human factor that makes it even worse... Being aware of the low standards unfortunately does not stop one from internalising them at some level as the correct way to operate. So they do not only stunt your current growth as a developer, but also your potential future growth, too.
  - throw_this_one 8y ago
    Agreed. It's just a downward spiral and my fault is that I've stuck myself in it for so long. So maybe it is worth bailing asap? My 401k vests in August, which would be about 8k extra. I don't want to be a developer even 5 years down the line. For me it is simply to develop this toolset, so that I can better understand how to build solutions for REAL problems (banking doesn't seem real enough to me). Something in the environmental or healthcare field seems interesting to me.
dabockster 8y ago
Seattle here. Most of the junior roles seem to be subcontracting around here. Unless you can get a referral, you're probably getting ghosted.

da02 8y ago

What was your educational and professional background that got you the job at the bank?

throw_this_one 8y ago
I have two degrees, Computer Science and Finance. It was my first job out of school 3 years ago. I think they just wanted "smart" grads. The way they placed you into teams was terrible and I feel like I haven't learned much at all in 3 years, but maybe I'm not giving myself enough credit. Have learned a ton through HN. Banking just seems pointless in the grand scheme, and I'd like to spend my 20's working towards something more meaningful than only a steady paycheck (still grateful I have that).

todayThrowaway 8y ago

I have a do-nothing job as a junior dev in a different area, but what you describe is my day-to-day. Maintaining outdated, undocumented applications on obsolete and unsupported hardware and software platforms. Everyone here knows how to do a good enough patch job to keep things moving smoothly. I openly complain a lot about the lack of any dev process - literally people do whatever they want, including copying the entire source tree to make changes - and absence of any tools. The usual response to change is "go for it and show us it will work", but I'm not familiar enough with the software to go off on a rewrite on my own. And honestly if I had that level of skill I'd be a consultant charge 3x what I get paid. I have sought a different job in the past and ended up here. Part of me feels like I wouldn't cut it at a "real" dev job and I'm not secure enough to risk a cushy job for the adventure. But it does drive me crazy. p.s. the guy next to me is sleeping in his chair - this is not unusual.

kazinator 8y ago
One problem is that people understandably don't want to create a dev process for maintaining outdated applications on obsolete, unsupported hardware. That's simply be because a nice dev process is something that looks forward into the future. You do it because you believe you're developing some nice stuff that you believe will be going somewhere.
- todayThrowaway 8y ago
  I see dev process less for sustainability of the code and more for the sake of sanity. I have been asked to rebuild tools that we only have the executable for and no source. I think the problem lies more in that people are set in their ways and don't want to change. I'm not so hellbent on using hip new tools - like git or an issue tracker - but I push really hard to get people to communicate and interact. Unfortunately, everyone has carved out a niche and there's an understanding to stay out of each others' part of the project.
throw_this_one 8y ago
Haha wow very similar. There's a guy here in a neighboring team that I used to work under that literally just falls asleep at his desk and snores. Comes in at 9:20, leaves at 3 some days. Which general domain or area are you working in? Is this your first job? I also have some imposter syndrome about being a "real" dev. I think that's because there's so many ways to go from here. Whereas, for example, if you were a doctor you would basically lock in your area of practice and then put your head down and get it done. For us, you could: build your own product, climb corporate ladder at BigCorp, startup world, freelance, freelance while traveling, consult, be a product manager instead, etc. The cushy part is tough to give up, but the free hours don't really make up for the existential dilemma that eats at my soul every day... I know right, first world problems.