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“Manager READMEs” from some tech companies
- rsingla 8y agoThis is phenomenal. Not only do I find some of the concepts mentioned in each README to be useful in my own work, but I also want to work for all of these managers!
- daxfohl 8y agoAll managers are people too. You just have to break through and you'll get to things like this.
- hnpromomessage 8y agoWe're hiring! Mention you saw the promo on hn and you get a free case of JOLT.
- tomcooks 8y agoPretending managerial shit is delicious won't make _corporate culture_ any more palatable. Blah.
- dasil003 8y agoIf you don't like "managerial shit", then all the more reason you are dependent on having a very good manager for your own sanity.
- RexM 8y agoHow about an employee README? > This is how I prefer to be managed...
- kelnos 8y agoYeah, I think this would be pretty useful. I'll admit that I'm not very easy to manage, and with me, less is more. I notice that many managers, especially new managers, seem to think they need to be very visible in their reports' day-to-day in order to feel like they're doing something, but that doesn't work with everyone. Being able to easily tell your manager up front what you think you need from them, and what you don't, could be pretty useful. Then again, that's part of what 1:1s are for.
- bitL 8y agoEmployee_README.md: I don't need a manager. Just tell me what you want and I'll make it for you without anyone messing up with my productivity. Thank you!
- kenning 8y agomore like hackernews_user.md
- jedberg 8y agoIf I tell you what I want you won't be engaged or excited. Also, I may not tell you the right thing -- it may not play to all your strengths or what you are interested in right now. If I tell you what the company goals are and our teams goals, and then ask you how you can use your unique talents to help us achieve those goals, you'll be much more engaged in the work, and also have a greater understanding of how your work fits into the rest of what your team and your company is doing. Context, not control.
- bitL 8y agoI firmly believe cooperative talented people can self-manage and drive vision better than any top-down authority. I can understand it won't work with people that go to work just for money though.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- diminoten 8y agoMy boss has told me more than once that his goal is to get the people under him to fill the role he's currently filling as our direct manager. This is, according to him, the only way he can move upward. He currently does a decently large amount of work for us as a team, but he's trying to shift that work onto us, because as you're pointing out here, cooperative and talented people can indeed self-manage. The problem he encounters is when that doesn't work out because no group is perfect, and frankly we're probably not ready to manage ourselves quite yet. But I think you're onto something here, and I also think every one of the managers who wrote READMEs in this submission would agree with you. From a logistical standpoint, someone has to attend all those meetings with other teams, with the leaders of the company to hear what they're thinking and translate it for the rest of the engineers, and make sure the boring stuff like vacation time, sick leave, etc. are being looked after. It's not really about being in charge/calling shots, it's about taking a group of talented and smart people, and making sure they're getting the info they need to keep build cool stuff.
- deleted 8y ago[deleted]
- silveroriole 8y agoInteresting that many seem to prefer weekly 1:1s. That seems far too much to me. I would absolutely dread having to spend so much time on that with my manager or my managees and I can’t imagine there are substantial benefits to it (does anyone REALLY have meaningful thoughts about their job/career path EVERY WEEK?)
- elliottcarlson 8y ago(I'm one of the managers with a README in the article) It really depends - I've had direct reports that have had plenty to cover on a weekly basis, and others that don't really have anything new -- the point of the weekly 1:1's is that they have dedicated time whatever they want or need from me - and it's their time to use as they see fit. If they want to skip that week because there's nothing new on their side, that's fine (but not every week), and if they are done in 10 minutes that's fine too. Other people have wanted closer to 2 hours a week of 1:1 time. It really comes down to the individual.
- bertjk 8y agoI'm really curious now, for those who want more 1:1 time, what sort of topics are often covered?
- elliottcarlson 8y agoCareer progression, walking through or pairing on problems, even personal life topics - remote employees sometimes desire some additional contact as well.
- meesterdude 8y agoI worked with a team of remote devs, and ended up on both sides. As a dev seeking manager time, I wanted/needed information. Diagrams, access, contacts, meetings. There was no onboarding and nothing but a codebase for a massive system. This was more like every other week, though. As a peer, I ran interference with a lot of the junior devs to make sure they had the info they need, to push for the info they didn't, and to get them hooked up with the people who had it. The lack of information enabled a lot of isolation and feelings of imposter syndrome, and the weekly chats gave my peers a forum to vent. Being remote, communication & culture require a lot more attention and effort.
- thomas 8y agoReads like managers dictating how they are and how things are going to be. Employee number whatever: Here are your new instructions, deal with it.
- geofft 8y agoOne of the READMEs specifically promised that the manager believes their paid job is to adapt to their reports' style, so, no.
- thomas 8y agoOne out of 12?
- sverige 8y agoIf you were a manager, what would your README say?
- FireBeyond 8y agoAnd one spent a good third talking about how you should feel about termination, the risks thereof, and what you should do about it.
- geofft 8y agoI reread them all but couldn't see it, sorry - which one was this? (I mean, that sounds like a good thing. Firing people who aren't good for the team is an important responsibility of any manager who doesn't want the rest of their team to quit, so I would ideally want to know that my manager has at least thought about it a little.)
- FireBeyond 8y agoWelcome to Netflix and Me ( https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TPSwdqDqVfWG9anfiOjGUjk0k6zQDij5xPvatPg7NFE/edit#slide=id.g3086af6854_0_150 https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1TPSwdqDqVfWG9anfiOjG... ), including slides like "Are you afraid of being fired yet?"
- bitL 8y agoThe best company I've ever worked for had no managers (beside owners). They made it to $1B, loved by HN crowd, their products used by many of you, and nobody ever wanted to manage anything there. People just discussed stuff and decided to do whatever looked super interesting. One team there had actually a person that was behaving like a manager, and that product completely flopped on the market.
- hossbeast 8y agoSounds fun. Did they ultimately succeed as a business though?
- jonas21 8y agoCare to name the company? You only have nice things to say about them, and I think many people are interested...
- ojbyrne 8y agoThe description fits Valve: https://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-talks-about-its-unusual-company-structure/1100-6447954/ https://www.gamespot.com/articles/valve-talks-about-its-unus...
- elliottcarlson 8y agoI can see it working, up to a point; introducing management can shift how things work overall, but if a company can get away with it, and that's what works for them, then great! Relevant: https://getlighthouse.com/blog/flat-organizational-structure-fails/ https://getlighthouse.com/blog/flat-organizational-structure...
- jedberg 8y agoIt sounds like you worked at Valve, or possibly Gor-tex, or another company with similar values. If so, I have a question. How does compensation review actually work? Like what are the detailed logistics? I understand the whole no managers thing and that your peers determine your salary, but how? How does that actually work? Who actually says, "this is the number" and who tells you the number?
- rdiddly 8y agoThese should be taken as the hypothesis statement at the start of an experiment, that will or won't be borne out by what actually happens. Show, don't tell. One reason: People can be wrong about themselves. Or they can, with varying degrees of either idealism or self-dishonesty, present a rosy view that amounts to little more than a sales pitch for themselves. If it's true, you'll find out soon enough. If it's not, you'll find out soon enough. Therefore these documents have little value and should be kept to the minimum length needed to discuss practical things like email expectations and overall goals - things everybody has to agree on.
- elliottcarlson 8y agoI completely agree - this document is worthless without follow through and accountability; which honestly was my motivation for writing mine. I want my reports, peers and boss to know how I expect to work and hold me accountable to the promises I make - I am not perfect, but the principles I outline is what I strive for.
- perseusprime11 8y ago+1 what bites you next time is not the same time as what bit you last time. Hard to imagine how anyone will respond in an untrained situation. Interesting to see how quickly these things become a fad in silicon valley
- chrbarrol 8y agoToo many teams I have worked in have way too little personal on-boarding in my opinion. At least with these presentations I know how the manager "wants" to present him/herself, if this turns out to be false, as you say, I'll know soon enough. On the other hand there are managers that do not introduce themselves enough to new employees which forces you to effectively learn by trial and error how you should interact with them. My point is I would appreciate an idealist sales pitch about a new manager more than just an unplanned, informal conversation.
- rdiddly 8y agoIt definitely does provide a sort of head-start on reaching that understanding, so in that sense it's valuable.
- apple4ever 8y agoThis is a great idea. I’m going make one of my own for my employees. Lots of great ideas in these.
- hitekker 8y agoI wish the author balanced his praise with some criticism. Right now, this article is positively fawning.
- brennanm 8y agoMy bad. These were just my notes... Feel free to respond on medium with yours
- daniel_iversen 8y agoThere seems to be a fair amount of skepticism about this method, but I think it’s a great system - and it can with great success be extended to everyone else in the company too - not just managers. At Dropbox, a lot of employees have (and we’re all encouraged to have) a “Working with me” document that describes your personality and work style, how you like to get and receive feedback, your career goals, your schedule and communication preferences etc.. it helps people work with each other in a more compatible, effective and empathetic way. But there’s definitely a level of vulnerability and trust that is needed to make it work, however it’s a powerful tool if you have a good culture to support it. Just my 5 cents.
- numbers 8y agoWere the "working with me" documents started by employees or was that something someone pitched/asked for from management? I'd like to do like that. Even as an individual contributor, there are times where I find myself describing my working style or communication style to new teammates.
- fergie 8y agoA lot of these README’s seem a bit samey. Is this a trend that was stared somewhere? Was there some dude middle-managers all look up to who suggested an example README that was used to provide inspration?
- diminoten 8y agoIt's less about writing the same README, I think, and more about there being an industry consensus on what a "good" manager says and does.
- fergie 8y agoIs there any verification that these are the good managers? (genuine question)
- diminoten 8y agoOh no, I didn't mean to suggest these folks are or are not actually "good" managers, just that what they've all got here is congruent with my current understanding of what the literature tells us a "good" manager says and does. I'm not trying to say any of it is accurate either, just pointing out the consistency being likely due to a shared set of sources rather than copying one another outright.
- blattimwind 8y ago"It’s on github! Super cool."
- brennanm 8y ago
- zippo 8y agoI wonder how many direct reports these managers have. Does anyone have insight? I believe 1on1 is good from my experience in companies where there is a lot of change and a lot going on the #1 feedback I get is people want more information, more 1on1, more team time. With roughly 40 direct reports 1on1 is nearly impossible with the other demands.
- elliottcarlson 8y agoAt one time I had multiple teams with 16 direct reports - at that point it was very hard to have a weekly cadence for 1:1's with everyone, as that would've been 8 hours a week. My solution to this was to start with bi-weekly 1:1's, having 8 people scheduled one week, the other 8 the following week. Then each week I had office hours scheduled - this was time dedicated to the team to be able to book my time and was not allowed to be booked for any other meetings - this way people who wanted to meet on an off week could. The second step was determine who could (and wanted) to step up in to management roles - ultimately, this lead to promoting two managers under me, and moving their direct reports to being a monthly skip level 1:1, reducing my overall bi-weekly 1:1's across my part of the org.
- CrankyFool 8y agoHonestly, I think 40 direct reports is borderline insane. You can't effectively support that many people (as you note yourself). Speaking as the author of two of these READMEs, at Netflix I had at peak around 12 direct reports (one was a manager with his own reports) and at Slack I have 3 (all of whom manage their own teams).
- 20171026 8y agoThis is excellent and exactly the motivation I need to keep hustling to stay independent.
- munchor 8y ago>We work for 9.5 to 10 hours a day. Some people start early (7AM) some later (9:45AM), and go home accordingly.[1] This is from the "Expectations" section of one of the linked "READMEs" (Forter's). Does anyone else this is a very aggressive expectation? [1]: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sx5ssYb_xMrmwPpyjD5xP7RvQ7cHweDYlRGn2SXztKw/edit# https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sx5ssYb_xMrmwPpyjD5xP7Rv...
- bootloop 8y agoDoesn't this mean that the office operates 9.5 to 10 hours a day because people work schedules are different? Means not that a single person works that much, not even the Manager but it could mean that its expect to get requests at any time in these 10h.
- jetsnoc 8y agoNo, it means each person works 9.5 to 10 hours per day and can set his/her start/stop times accordingly to achieve that.
- shubidubi 8y agoForter is an Israeli company, unfortunately 10 hours/day is now a norm in Israel.
- fizx 8y agoFrom my month in Israel working at a startup, it seems like long lunches and smoke breaks are also a norm. Maybe they compensate?
- ivraatiems 8y agoI feel strongly that the kind of people who identify the need to create a document like this are probably not the people who most need such a document written about them. That is, in order to feel it necessary to write something like this, you must be a manager who prioritizes answering the question "what can I do to maximize the happiness and productivity of my direct reports," over "what can I do to ensure my own personal success, regardless of anyone else." Such a person is already going to do the right things, and is much less likely to be hard to work with. The people who really need these kinds of documents written about them are the ones who are actually difficult to work with - but for many very good reasons, that won't happen.
- elliottcarlson 8y agoI think the publication of these are offering others the opportunity to be introspective of their management styles. While the document I wrote isn't necessarily covering anything I don't already tell and re-affirm to my direct reports, it was a great exercise in thinking through my management style and what it means to me. I hope that the more popular these things become, further conversations can happen in the community to figure out how to help those managers that might need that help, and help organizations identify potential problem areas in their org structures.
- kostarelo 8y agoThey all look very similar to me. I would love to see a gist with points from all of them.
- piccolbo 8y agoIf you know how to read through the lines, these documents are pure gold. Bosses who say "work under/for me"? Stay away, egomaniacs. You always work for an organization, not an egomaniac. My job is to "give you context"? Weasel words alert. Fake freedom. The best is this one: "1. you should do what you think is right 2. I can fire you"