4 ms·

This is one of those rules with essentially zero exceptions. Nobody that's telling the truth ever brags about that.

JackCh 8y ago
Do you wager Ernst Jünger fabricated his memoir? I strongly suspect there are exceptions to this rule. At the very least we know there exist people in prisons today who enjoy murder. Arguably that's very different since (I assume) 'enjoying killing' and 'enjoying getting shot back at' are worlds apart. But, would it surprise you if there was a small minority of drone operators who genuinely enjoyed their work? Then again I suppose (hope) the modern military system might select against that kind of mindset.
- fapjacks 8y ago
  I'm not talking about whether or not people enjoy the act of taking another person's life. Obviously, some people do. I am talking about bragging about it. If you ever hear someone making these kinds of claims loudly at a bar, you can bet your next paycheck they never left the FOB.
  - JackCh 8y ago
    I don't doubt that betting against it is a good bet. But I do doubt there is zero intersection between braggart and people who enjoy killing.
    - fapjacks 8y ago
      Perhaps you would accept essentially zero in that case.
      - JackCh 8y ago
        I think it's a small minority, but probably not as rare as you make it out to be: https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-people-are-psychopaths-sociopaths https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-people-are-psychopa... I don't mean any offense by this, I'm trying to say it delicately, but I think "anybody who brags about killing in combat is lying" is something of 'white lie', probably earnestly believed by most who repeat it, meant to preserve the reputation of combat veterans as a whole by discrediting any veteran who would be so tactless as to brag about killing. I believe it's basically a way of credibly stating "this person who's making the rest of us look bad by association does not represent us."
        fapjacks 8y ago
        Good luck in your quest to nail down precise numbers. You'll never get there, but I wish you luck in any case.
        JackCh 8y ago
        I'm not on a quest for precise numbers.
stcredzero 8y ago
This is one of those rules with essentially zero exceptions. Nobody that's telling the truth ever brags about that. There's another musician I know in that scene (but in a different part of the US) who was in Vietnam. No one could ever get him to talk about his combat experience. There was one time that we succeeded on steering him onto the topic, and we very soon changed the subject and stopped bringing it up. (He was also one of the nicest guys I ever met, unless he was being blunt about music. He also could play Santa Claus without a disguise!) Do you think Timothy McVeigh ever fabricated enjoying killing? There are accounts from his fellow soldiers that he quite enjoyed shooting at enemies. My estimation, from life experience, is that there are definitely sociopaths and psychopaths out there. 99%+ of people aren't like that, but you will definitely meet them all the same. We shouldn't simplify reality just to paint pretty pictures for ideological reasons. Life is messy and there is a nasty side to reality. Hopefully, we won't have to deal with it that often.

Do you wager Ernst Jünger fabricated his memoir? I strongly suspect there are exceptions to this rule. At the very least we know there exist people in prisons today who enjoy murder. Arguably that's very different since (I assume) 'enjoying killing' and 'enjoying getting shot back at' are worlds apart. But, would it surprise you if there was a small minority of drone operators who genuinely enjoyed their work? Then again I suppose (hope) the modern military system might select against that kind of mindset.

fapjacks 8y ago
I'm not talking about whether or not people enjoy the act of taking another person's life. Obviously, some people do. I am talking about bragging about it. If you ever hear someone making these kinds of claims loudly at a bar, you can bet your next paycheck they never left the FOB.
- JackCh 8y ago
  I don't doubt that betting against it is a good bet. But I do doubt there is zero intersection between braggart and people who enjoy killing.
  - fapjacks 8y ago
    Perhaps you would accept essentially zero in that case.
    - JackCh 8y ago
      I think it's a small minority, but probably not as rare as you make it out to be: https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-people-are-psychopaths-sociopaths https://www.quora.com/What-percentage-of-people-are-psychopa... I don't mean any offense by this, I'm trying to say it delicately, but I think "anybody who brags about killing in combat is lying" is something of 'white lie', probably earnestly believed by most who repeat it, meant to preserve the reputation of combat veterans as a whole by discrediting any veteran who would be so tactless as to brag about killing. I believe it's basically a way of credibly stating "this person who's making the rest of us look bad by association does not represent us."
      - fapjacks 8y ago
        Good luck in your quest to nail down precise numbers. You'll never get there, but I wish you luck in any case.
        JackCh 8y ago
        I'm not on a quest for precise numbers.

stcredzero 8y ago

This is one of those rules with essentially zero exceptions. Nobody that's telling the truth ever brags about that. There's another musician I know in that scene (but in a different part of the US) who was in Vietnam. No one could ever get him to talk about his combat experience. There was one time that we succeeded on steering him onto the topic, and we very soon changed the subject and stopped bringing it up. (He was also one of the nicest guys I ever met, unless he was being blunt about music. He also could play Santa Claus without a disguise!) Do you think Timothy McVeigh ever fabricated enjoying killing? There are accounts from his fellow soldiers that he quite enjoyed shooting at enemies. My estimation, from life experience, is that there are definitely sociopaths and psychopaths out there. 99%+ of people aren't like that, but you will definitely meet them all the same. We shouldn't simplify reality just to paint pretty pictures for ideological reasons. Life is messy and there is a nasty side to reality. Hopefully, we won't have to deal with it that often.