12 ms·
"not all the dots are blue" - in the case where there are n people with n-1 blue dots and 1 red dot, the person with the red dot kills themself, and then everyo
by uiri 8y ago
"not all the dots are blue" - in the case where there are n people with n-1 blue dots and 1 red dot, the person with the red dot kills themself, and then everyone else kills themselves because they know that the red dot person killed themself because they did not see any red dots.
- cortesoft 8y agoRight, but if there were two red dots the town is fine. In a one red dot town, you could say “there is at least one blue dot”
- gowld 8y agoBy induction and perspective-taking, 1 person dies each time everyone sits and thinks for a while.
- anyfoo 8y agoWould they be fine? So let's say there are two people with red dots, let's name them Ruth and Rudy. Ruth now knows that "not all dots are blue" (which is equivalent to "there is at least one red dot"). She sees Rudy with the red dot: Fine, here's the person with the red dot. But wait a minute, why is Rudy not killing himself? If Rudy is the only person with a red dot, he should have seen only blue dots... however he knows there has to be at least one red dot, so if he only saw blue dots, the red dot must have been him, so he would have killed himself. But he didn't, so that means he has seen at least one red dot, which isn't him, and isn't anybody else Ruth has seen because she only saw blue dots otherwise. Oh no, it must be Ruth with the second red dot!
- cortesoft 8y agoOk now it is making sense. The same would be true if you went to three dots.... the third person would think, “wait, why aren’t the two blue dotted people killing themselves? There must be a third blue dot... wait, the third blue dot must be me” That makes sense. What about the other commenter, who said something like “Alice has a blue dot.” Wouldn’t that not lead to everyone’s death?
- uiri 8y agoI think that "Alice has a blue dot" is technically not a statement about the number of blue dots.
- Deestan 8y agoIn your three dots logic, this would have a red dot person kill themselves if there are two blue dots: The two blue dotted people aren't killing themselves because they are still thinking "wait, why isn't he killing himself" about the other. I feel like some timing procedures need to be defined.
- cortesoft 8y agoI think the 'they meet every night' is supposed to be the 'timing procedure'
- Deestan 8y agoGiven 2 red dots, they would already know that not all dots are blue even before the stranger comes. At their first town meeting, everyone would know "not all dots are blue" and they would know that everyone else knew that information too. Would this mean the colony would self-implode?
- fydorm 8y agoIf you have a red dot, you only know that there is at least 1 red dot, and you don't know if that one person knows "not all dots are blue". Hence, it's new information when that person doesn't commit suicide.
- joosters 8y agoBut how would they know how long to wait before they kill themselves? What if Rudy hasn't killed himself yet because he's slightly slower at solving logic problems?
- coldtea 8y agoSince they meet every night the implicit idea is that whoever is to kill themselves will do it by the end of the night or next morning -- so after that, in the next-next night's meeting they can take whether someone committed suicide or not into account. Whether someone is "slower at solving logic problems" goes into IQ etc, and is not relevant to the logic problem (the same way "what if someone refuses to kill themselves over something so superficial" is -- one should assume they can all do the math it takes equally well, else we would have been told of that.