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After reading that I'm so happy that I develop traditional Flask and Rails applications with server side templates and tiny bits of JS thrown in when necessary.

by nickjj 9y ago

After reading that I'm so happy that I develop traditional Flask and Rails applications with server side templates and tiny bits of JS thrown in when necessary. I'm all for moving forward and using new stuff if it makes my life better, but from the looks of it, Serverless is still many years away before discussions like that can even take place.

fbonetti 9y ago
I’m jealous. I left Rails behind a couple years ago because I wanted to learn new things and not get stuck on a single stack. I’m currently working with Typescript/Node on a serverless framework on AWS. It’s got all the buzzwords but dear lord it’s complicated. I would not recommend it.
- slig 9y ago
  I find TypeScript to be an absolute god send in medium/larger projects. It's more complex to get started, but to understand and maintain it's way better.
  - deleted 9y ago
    [deleted]
  - fbonetti 9y ago
    I like Typescript a lot, especially compared to plain JS. AWS lambda, on the other hand, requires very special use cases in order to justify the complexity and learning curve, IMO. It’s not great as a general programming environment.
whoisjuan 9y ago
You can still use serverless while maintaining a traditional architecture. I have a LAMP app, but I use Lambda + API Gateway to handle a multitude of tasks. The main benefit I have seen so far is that I get to work on complex ideas without worrying too much if this is going to work or scale on my main stack.
Touche 9y ago
Serverless has nothing to do with frontend vs backend templating. I use Lambda and do server rendered pages. I just don't have to manage the server, it's invisible to me.
- jacques_chester 9y ago
  AWS have rebranded everything they can as "serverless" and are pushing a definition of serverless which is, approximately, "it's AWS". I cannot blame them. I would too, it's a phenomenal honeypot. I prefer to use the label "FaaS", because it fits clearly into an existing taxonomy and doesn't spark silly arguments about what is, and what is not, serverless or serverful. Disclosure: I work for Pivotal on a FaaS project.
mamcx 9y ago
> Serverless is still many years away This could imply that serverless "just need to improved" to a point is good for most. I argue will NEVER* be good, not matter what kind of glue we put on top of it. Because, I think, not matter what you do or how hard you try, is the most complex way to do a software project. *Never: probably not in the next millenium....
- Touche 9y ago
  What is complex about writing a function?
  - bdcravens 9y ago
    Nothing. However no "serverless" solution is only writing a function. (throw in some IAM roles, database connection pooling, API gateway, etc)
- quakenul 9y ago
  The number of tech problems that exist today and will not be solved or made obsolete within the next 1000 years: 0
rmason 9y ago
> Serverless is still many years away I strongly disagree, yes it is early and some of the tools notably debugging and logs aren't anywhere near the level they need to be. I'm developing an app with serverless and this article really resonated with me about my struggles. I think once Aurora Serverless launches allowing developers who need a relational database to easily move on the platform you will see rapid growth with serverless. Why? Because it makes so much sense. Why worry about managing servers or scaling? Why continually write the same boilerplate glue code over and over again? I know that I'd rather write a configuration file calling best of the best components over writing code. Don't get me wrong I like writing code but I'd rather concentrate on the business logic.
- electricEmu 9y ago
  > I'm developing an app with serverless Lambda? If so, what benefit do you see over running AWS Container Service? I ask because I've tried both. Serverless frameworks (AWS Lambda/AzFunc) were horrific. I picked up Docker as an answer and never looked back. Others in my company are abandoning serverless after seeing our success. Turns out being easily able to run things locally, very similar to production, is very important. We have no problem concentrating on the business logic AND keeping flexibility.
  - Touche 9y ago
    It really depends on what you are doing I guess. Sounds like you enjoy the dev aspect of Docker, which tells me you are doing more that just running a function.
  - camhart 9y ago
    You can run azure functions locally no problem. I've loved my time with serverless framework and aws lambda.
- georgebarnett 9y ago
  You disagree, yet readily admit the toolchain is lacking. Parents point is saying exactly that - filling out the toolchain to a meaningful completeness is going to take a couple of years. This isn’t a ding on Lamdas - just a reality - theres a huge backlog of capabilities to catch up on.

by nickjj 9y ago

fbonetti 9y ago

I’m jealous. I left Rails behind a couple years ago because I wanted to learn new things and not get stuck on a single stack. I’m currently working with Typescript/Node on a serverless framework on AWS. It’s got all the buzzwords but dear lord it’s complicated. I would not recommend it.

slig 9y ago
I find TypeScript to be an absolute god send in medium/larger projects. It's more complex to get started, but to understand and maintain it's way better.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- fbonetti 9y ago
  I like Typescript a lot, especially compared to plain JS. AWS lambda, on the other hand, requires very special use cases in order to justify the complexity and learning curve, IMO. It’s not great as a general programming environment.

whoisjuan 9y ago

You can still use serverless while maintaining a traditional architecture. I have a LAMP app, but I use Lambda + API Gateway to handle a multitude of tasks. The main benefit I have seen so far is that I get to work on complex ideas without worrying too much if this is going to work or scale on my main stack.

Touche 9y ago

Serverless has nothing to do with frontend vs backend templating. I use Lambda and do server rendered pages. I just don't have to manage the server, it's invisible to me.

jacques_chester 9y ago
AWS have rebranded everything they can as "serverless" and are pushing a definition of serverless which is, approximately, "it's AWS". I cannot blame them. I would too, it's a phenomenal honeypot. I prefer to use the label "FaaS", because it fits clearly into an existing taxonomy and doesn't spark silly arguments about what is, and what is not, serverless or serverful. Disclosure: I work for Pivotal on a FaaS project.

mamcx 9y ago

> Serverless is still many years away This could imply that serverless "just need to improved" to a point is good for most. I argue will NEVER* be good, not matter what kind of glue we put on top of it. Because, I think, not matter what you do or how hard you try, is the most complex way to do a software project. *Never: probably not in the next millenium....

Touche 9y ago
What is complex about writing a function?
- bdcravens 9y ago
  Nothing. However no "serverless" solution is only writing a function. (throw in some IAM roles, database connection pooling, API gateway, etc)
quakenul 9y ago
The number of tech problems that exist today and will not be solved or made obsolete within the next 1000 years: 0

rmason 9y ago

> Serverless is still many years away I strongly disagree, yes it is early and some of the tools notably debugging and logs aren't anywhere near the level they need to be. I'm developing an app with serverless and this article really resonated with me about my struggles. I think once Aurora Serverless launches allowing developers who need a relational database to easily move on the platform you will see rapid growth with serverless. Why? Because it makes so much sense. Why worry about managing servers or scaling? Why continually write the same boilerplate glue code over and over again? I know that I'd rather write a configuration file calling best of the best components over writing code. Don't get me wrong I like writing code but I'd rather concentrate on the business logic.

electricEmu 9y ago
> I'm developing an app with serverless Lambda? If so, what benefit do you see over running AWS Container Service? I ask because I've tried both. Serverless frameworks (AWS Lambda/AzFunc) were horrific. I picked up Docker as an answer and never looked back. Others in my company are abandoning serverless after seeing our success. Turns out being easily able to run things locally, very similar to production, is very important. We have no problem concentrating on the business logic AND keeping flexibility.
- Touche 9y ago
  It really depends on what you are doing I guess. Sounds like you enjoy the dev aspect of Docker, which tells me you are doing more that just running a function.
- camhart 9y ago
  You can run azure functions locally no problem. I've loved my time with serverless framework and aws lambda.
georgebarnett 9y ago
You disagree, yet readily admit the toolchain is lacking. Parents point is saying exactly that - filling out the toolchain to a meaningful completeness is going to take a couple of years. This isn’t a ding on Lamdas - just a reality - theres a huge backlog of capabilities to catch up on.