3 ms·

We have not been made (substantially) safer. The trade was not worth it. A town near me recently installed ANPR license plate readers. Their justification was

by rconti 9y ago

We have not been made (substantially) safer. The trade was not worth it. A town near me recently installed ANPR license plate readers. Their justification was to catch criminals, particularly those engaging in property crimes which were going unsolved. Did ANPR help solve some property crimes? Almost certainly. Were property crimes up significantly prior to the installation of the ANPR readers? No. Are they down significantly after? No.

BookmarkSaver 9y ago
>We have not been made (substantially) safer. How do you know that? >Were property crimes up significantly prior to the installation of the ANPR readers? No. Are they down significantly after? No. I get that this comparison sounds similar, but it really doesn't make any sense. The most powerful nations in the world are constantly trying to gain as much access to our secure systems, communications, and infrastructure. Even though these efforts are almost entirely hidden from every level of the public, we still have plenty of stories of things like Stuxnet or the Chinese obtaining classified engineering data. The NSA exists to combat this. They aren't fighting crime. They aren't fighting what is essentially an economically guaranteed statistical effect (property crime). They are an intelligence gathering and signal analysis agency tasked with thwarting foreign actors, which we know are actively pouring massive resources into activities hostile to us. That is why they exist, and that is why their successes (and failures) are almost entirely unknown to the general public.
- schoen 9y ago
  Upvoted for making specific arguments rather than abusing people, like you did in some other parts of this thread.
  - BookmarkSaver 9y ago
    Because it seemed like a legitimate misunderstanding rather than a complete unwillingness to even glance at the NSAs mandate.
- orcs 9y ago
  Wasn't stuxnet created by the NSA?
  - BookmarkSaver 9y ago
    IIRC yes. I also think I heard that Israel was involved. Anyway, who did it wasn't my point, my point was that all governments are engaged in this level of competition. The NSA exists (and has such a monstrous budget) because it is in constant, direct conflict with extremely capable and dangerous opponents. (not trying to pick out deranged criminals acting indepenedently from a crowd)
    - wybiral 9y ago
      Wasn't the reporting about it being NSA + Israel all from Kaspersky or did any non-biased researchers confirm?

by rconti 9y ago

BookmarkSaver 9y ago

>We have not been made (substantially) safer. How do you know that? >Were property crimes up significantly prior to the installation of the ANPR readers? No. Are they down significantly after? No. I get that this comparison sounds similar, but it really doesn't make any sense. The most powerful nations in the world are constantly trying to gain as much access to our secure systems, communications, and infrastructure. Even though these efforts are almost entirely hidden from every level of the public, we still have plenty of stories of things like Stuxnet or the Chinese obtaining classified engineering data. The NSA exists to combat this. They aren't fighting crime. They aren't fighting what is essentially an economically guaranteed statistical effect (property crime). They are an intelligence gathering and signal analysis agency tasked with thwarting foreign actors, which we know are actively pouring massive resources into activities hostile to us. That is why they exist, and that is why their successes (and failures) are almost entirely unknown to the general public.

schoen 9y ago
Upvoted for making specific arguments rather than abusing people, like you did in some other parts of this thread.
- BookmarkSaver 9y ago
  Because it seemed like a legitimate misunderstanding rather than a complete unwillingness to even glance at the NSAs mandate.
orcs 9y ago
Wasn't stuxnet created by the NSA?
- BookmarkSaver 9y ago
  IIRC yes. I also think I heard that Israel was involved. Anyway, who did it wasn't my point, my point was that all governments are engaged in this level of competition. The NSA exists (and has such a monstrous budget) because it is in constant, direct conflict with extremely capable and dangerous opponents. (not trying to pick out deranged criminals acting indepenedently from a crowd)
  - wybiral 9y ago
    Wasn't the reporting about it being NSA + Israel all from Kaspersky or did any non-biased researchers confirm?