5 ms·

It seems like you've traded in a bunch of open source solutions, to a walled garden in AWS and amazon tools.

whoisjuan 9y ago
To be fair everything is a walled garden. Even open source solutions. You still need to have an infrastructure to run your code and unless you want to build your own servers you still need to pay AWS/Azure/GCP/DigitalOcean/etc for renting that infra. So I really don't see what's the problem of using something like AWS exclusively. If anything, it makes your life easier.
- deleted 9y ago
  [deleted]
- boogiewoogie 9y ago
  Agreeing here. If you can't run your code without AWS or whatever your vendor is, you got bigger problems. I'm talking about the core business code. Ops is important but replaceable.
- hinkley 9y ago
  You really class DO with those other guys for lock-in? Or is that the part you are blind to?
  - whoisjuan 9y ago
    I mean. Digital Ocean provides infrastructure too. Nothing is stopping you to run something like OpenFaas on DO.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
  Yeah, everything is a monopoly. Even a free market. You still need to buy stuff! Wut?
- nl 9y ago
  Note that this discussion is about AWS Lambda, not AWS generally. There are upsides and downsides to using AWS Lambda, but characterizing it as a walled garden is pretty reasonable. That's not the same as code you can run on any Linux server.
super_trooper 9y ago
The trade-off is cost. The article even mentions they drove down the operational cost at least 70%. You can still run whatever open source library in the lambda that you need (still need to ask, is it with the extra bytes), but yea, you are betting big with AWS. GCE serverless is way behind right now.
- jacques_chester 9y ago
  Nobody ever shows any love for Azure in these discussions. Disclosure: I work on Project Riff at Pivotal.
  - camhart 9y ago
    I've used both azure functions and aws lambda in production environments. Azure functions feel rushed out the door with gotchas/problems around every corner, including major stability issues. Azure functions are mid transition between v1 and v2, with v1 becoming outdated with nuget version lockin and cluttered with gotchas, but v2 is plagued with stability problems and breaking changes happening every other month. Aws lambdas have had more refinement done on them. For the time being i wouldn't recommend azure functions unless there's non technical motivations.
  - ci5er 9y ago
    Azure: Fix the API Gateway. And the "managed database". Then I might go back to using you.
  - yebyen 9y ago
    OK, I'll do it, although this one requires that you have a live Kubernetes cluster to run your functions on, I haven't heard much about it other than that it is more friendly open code from the lovely people that brought us Deis and Helm: https://github.com/Azure/brigade https://github.com/Azure/brigade Hey, I bet you've heard of this, it sounds like Riff is absolutely in the same space :D I think for most small enterprises today it's not too much to ask that you have a Kubernetes cluster with autoscaling provisioned somewhere. I think in 2018 you're not serious if you don't have at least that (or something comparable, although I've heard "the war is over" and agree that people should just get comfortable already with the idea of K8S if they haven't yet) There are enough managed offerings today that don't charge anything for masters, where you can simply push a button and get a cluster that is properly configured, and push another button to tear it down when you're done, or call an API and get the same effect. I know that's not really "serverless" now, and it's all about the cost of running computers in the cloud on a 24/7 basis, so tell me if you've heard this one before... I've never succeeded in standing up a Kubernetes cluster with ASG for workers that will scale all the way down to zero when demand for worker nodes evaporates for a long enough period of time (10-30 mins?). Admittedly I've never spent that much time trying at it either... I am privileged to have some real physical computers plugged into the wall that I don't have to turn off, so I guess I just don't have to think that way. There's just not any technical reason that won't work though, is there? You'll need the master(s) to hang around, so it's possible to notice Pending pods and scale back up when the demand returns, right? (So why am I not seeing this capability advertised or demo from any managed Kubernetes provider offerings, is it really just simple economic answer that given the pricing model of no-cost masters, they don't make any money off you during a period of time that you aren't running any worker nodes?)
GauntletWizard 9y ago
Did you exchange a walk-on part in a war for a lead role in a cage?
- mping 9y ago
  Wish you were here to tell you that the Pink Floyd reference doesn't quite fit.
ryanmarsh 9y ago
You say it like it’s a bad thing. I’m betting on Amazon being in business at least as long as IBM. The benefits far outweigh the costs of having to port my code in 100+ years. If the machines aren’t sentient by then...
- ci5er 9y ago
  I hope you enjoy lock-in pricing...
spunker540 9y ago
To be fair the serverless framework supports several types of cloud solutions besides AWS — but I’m not so sure how easily one can switch mid-project.

To be fair everything is a walled garden. Even open source solutions. You still need to have an infrastructure to run your code and unless you want to build your own servers you still need to pay AWS/Azure/GCP/DigitalOcean/etc for renting that infra. So I really don't see what's the problem of using something like AWS exclusively. If anything, it makes your life easier.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
boogiewoogie 9y ago
Agreeing here. If you can't run your code without AWS or whatever your vendor is, you got bigger problems. I'm talking about the core business code. Ops is important but replaceable.
hinkley 9y ago
You really class DO with those other guys for lock-in? Or is that the part you are blind to?
- whoisjuan 9y ago
  I mean. Digital Ocean provides infrastructure too. Nothing is stopping you to run something like OpenFaas on DO.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 9y ago
Yeah, everything is a monopoly. Even a free market. You still need to buy stuff! Wut?
nl 9y ago
Note that this discussion is about AWS Lambda, not AWS generally. There are upsides and downsides to using AWS Lambda, but characterizing it as a walled garden is pretty reasonable. That's not the same as code you can run on any Linux server.

super_trooper 9y ago

The trade-off is cost. The article even mentions they drove down the operational cost at least 70%. You can still run whatever open source library in the lambda that you need (still need to ask, is it with the extra bytes), but yea, you are betting big with AWS. GCE serverless is way behind right now.

jacques_chester 9y ago
Nobody ever shows any love for Azure in these discussions. Disclosure: I work on Project Riff at Pivotal.
- camhart 9y ago
  I've used both azure functions and aws lambda in production environments. Azure functions feel rushed out the door with gotchas/problems around every corner, including major stability issues. Azure functions are mid transition between v1 and v2, with v1 becoming outdated with nuget version lockin and cluttered with gotchas, but v2 is plagued with stability problems and breaking changes happening every other month. Aws lambdas have had more refinement done on them. For the time being i wouldn't recommend azure functions unless there's non technical motivations.
- ci5er 9y ago
  Azure: Fix the API Gateway. And the "managed database". Then I might go back to using you.
- yebyen 9y ago
  OK, I'll do it, although this one requires that you have a live Kubernetes cluster to run your functions on, I haven't heard much about it other than that it is more friendly open code from the lovely people that brought us Deis and Helm: https://github.com/Azure/brigade https://github.com/Azure/brigade Hey, I bet you've heard of this, it sounds like Riff is absolutely in the same space :D I think for most small enterprises today it's not too much to ask that you have a Kubernetes cluster with autoscaling provisioned somewhere. I think in 2018 you're not serious if you don't have at least that (or something comparable, although I've heard "the war is over" and agree that people should just get comfortable already with the idea of K8S if they haven't yet) There are enough managed offerings today that don't charge anything for masters, where you can simply push a button and get a cluster that is properly configured, and push another button to tear it down when you're done, or call an API and get the same effect. I know that's not really "serverless" now, and it's all about the cost of running computers in the cloud on a 24/7 basis, so tell me if you've heard this one before... I've never succeeded in standing up a Kubernetes cluster with ASG for workers that will scale all the way down to zero when demand for worker nodes evaporates for a long enough period of time (10-30 mins?). Admittedly I've never spent that much time trying at it either... I am privileged to have some real physical computers plugged into the wall that I don't have to turn off, so I guess I just don't have to think that way. There's just not any technical reason that won't work though, is there? You'll need the master(s) to hang around, so it's possible to notice Pending pods and scale back up when the demand returns, right? (So why am I not seeing this capability advertised or demo from any managed Kubernetes provider offerings, is it really just simple economic answer that given the pricing model of no-cost masters, they don't make any money off you during a period of time that you aren't running any worker nodes?)

GauntletWizard 9y ago

Did you exchange a walk-on part in a war for a lead role in a cage?

mping 9y ago
Wish you were here to tell you that the Pink Floyd reference doesn't quite fit.

ryanmarsh 9y ago

You say it like it’s a bad thing. I’m betting on Amazon being in business at least as long as IBM. The benefits far outweigh the costs of having to port my code in 100+ years. If the machines aren’t sentient by then...

ci5er 9y ago
I hope you enjoy lock-in pricing...

spunker540 9y ago

To be fair the serverless framework supports several types of cloud solutions besides AWS — but I’m not so sure how easily one can switch mid-project.