5 ms·

Getting PWAs right is difficult at the moment. If you don't get service workers right and don't build out the surrounding features (cache invalidation!) then it

Getting PWAs right is difficult at the moment. If you don't get service workers right and don't build out the surrounding features (cache invalidation!) then it creates a worse experience. Then take into account the fact that PWA support is broken on iOS... I really doubt that Apple will fully support PWAs (e.g. web push) beyond App Manifest. The issue that isn't discussed as much is discoverability. iOS users are trained to go to the App Store to install an app. App Store on iOS feels safe, secure, and intuitive. How often do you think a user will choose to pin a website on iOS, regardless of what the suggestion UI looks like?

ckuhl 8y ago
App Store on iOS feels safe Does it feel safe or is it actually safe? A big part of Apple's competitive advantage is the quality it provides (real or perceived). If an app provides a subpar experience, they can yank it from the app store, whereas they have no recourse if a PWA starts e.g. cryptomining in the background.
- mephitix 8y ago
  Both. From an end-users perspective - someone who doesn't know the inner workings of the app store - then it feels safe. In a world where common people are becoming trained not to click to download random links on the internet and look at the 'lock in the address bar', going to the App Store app and seeing the familiar UI feels safer. For us tech folks, then yes, we know it is safer.
- maneesh 8y ago
  Strangely, their new ad platform appears to be pretty gameable in some respects... https://medium.com/@johnnylin/how-to-make-80-000-per-month-on-the-apple-app-store-bdb943862e88 https://medium.com/@johnnylin/how-to-make-80-000-per-month-o... That said, they just denied an app I released (here on Google Play https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pavlok.meetmaneesh https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pavlok.mee... , it syncs my content from different media sources around the web) was denied. They said it was too close to a web experience. We've released several iOS and Android apps, and inside of our apps are mini-apps (different habits and behaviors our users want to change). The app we were attempting to make used React, which was giving us a headache. The denial was annoying, but fortunately, iOS just enabled PWAs. It seems to my developers that the site is essentially Web technologies (HTML/CSS/JS) + a Manifest. By doing that, you can enable push notifications and offline access. Is that essentially it? Because that might solve the problem of making apps rapidly on multiple platforms for us.
  - mephitix 8y ago
    PWAs are broken on iOS. Push notifications are not supported, and in general the experience is pretty bad. See this article for more details: https://medium.com/@firt/progressive-web-apps-on-ios-are-here-d00430dee3a7 https://medium.com/@firt/progressive-web-apps-on-ios-are-her... The worst is that if you are in a PWA, say in a page like /my/sub/page and navigate out of the PWA, like go to a different website or go to another app, and then come back to the PWA, it will reload and go to the / home page, destroying all state and routing.
smhg 8y ago
Depends on the audience. My small SaaS business never had a native app. 'Installation' of the PWA was never an issue (for SMB owners). Cache invalidation is hard though.
- mephitix 8y ago
  Do you tell your clients to install the PWA and how to do it? Or do customers find and install the PWA without interacting with you? Or both?
  - gramstrong 8y ago
    I'll pipe in with my experience. I worked for a company that built applications for a mostly non-technical customer group. We built a very small PWA for them to perform some daily record entry, which often occurred out in the field or in rural areas where connection is spotty. We thought it was a great use-case. They couldn't have cared less about the offline use or having the option to install it. They just liked the app. I think service workers and PWAs in general definitely serve a purpose in enhancing web applications in ways that the user might not explicitly realize, though.
    - mephitix 8y ago
      Thanks! But my question - probably not phrased well - was whether you told them about the app or whether they organically found the app and were ok with how to install it. I feel that if you know your customers well and vice versa (usually a high-touch sales model), you can tell them where the app is, how to install it, and like you said, they don't care. If you have a PWA sitting in the wild and have a low-touch sales model, I wonder how many people will actually go to that site and hit 'install to homescreen' vs looking for an app. It is a very strange approach on an iPhone. A concrete example - I don't know our company. I'm a farmer and I want a daily record entry app on my iPhone. Do I go to the app store, look for an app and go through the usual dance OR do I look on the web, find the PWA, see a prompt to 'install to homescreen!' and I'm ok with hitting OK on it. If I don't hit that 'install to homescren!' button on iPhone, I won't get things like web push notifications (which you still don't get on iPhone) which are pretty important to some apps. If I come to you, or if you send out a message personally to me and tell me to 'install to homescreen' then I'm totally fine with it.

ckuhl 8y ago

App Store on iOS feels safe Does it feel safe or is it actually safe? A big part of Apple's competitive advantage is the quality it provides (real or perceived). If an app provides a subpar experience, they can yank it from the app store, whereas they have no recourse if a PWA starts e.g. cryptomining in the background.

mephitix 8y ago
Both. From an end-users perspective - someone who doesn't know the inner workings of the app store - then it feels safe. In a world where common people are becoming trained not to click to download random links on the internet and look at the 'lock in the address bar', going to the App Store app and seeing the familiar UI feels safer. For us tech folks, then yes, we know it is safer.
maneesh 8y ago
Strangely, their new ad platform appears to be pretty gameable in some respects... https://medium.com/@johnnylin/how-to-make-80-000-per-month-on-the-apple-app-store-bdb943862e88 https://medium.com/@johnnylin/how-to-make-80-000-per-month-o... That said, they just denied an app I released (here on Google Play https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pavlok.meetmaneesh https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.pavlok.mee... , it syncs my content from different media sources around the web) was denied. They said it was too close to a web experience. We've released several iOS and Android apps, and inside of our apps are mini-apps (different habits and behaviors our users want to change). The app we were attempting to make used React, which was giving us a headache. The denial was annoying, but fortunately, iOS just enabled PWAs. It seems to my developers that the site is essentially Web technologies (HTML/CSS/JS) + a Manifest. By doing that, you can enable push notifications and offline access. Is that essentially it? Because that might solve the problem of making apps rapidly on multiple platforms for us.
- mephitix 8y ago
  PWAs are broken on iOS. Push notifications are not supported, and in general the experience is pretty bad. See this article for more details: https://medium.com/@firt/progressive-web-apps-on-ios-are-here-d00430dee3a7 https://medium.com/@firt/progressive-web-apps-on-ios-are-her... The worst is that if you are in a PWA, say in a page like /my/sub/page and navigate out of the PWA, like go to a different website or go to another app, and then come back to the PWA, it will reload and go to the / home page, destroying all state and routing.

smhg 8y ago

Depends on the audience. My small SaaS business never had a native app. 'Installation' of the PWA was never an issue (for SMB owners). Cache invalidation is hard though.

mephitix 8y ago
Do you tell your clients to install the PWA and how to do it? Or do customers find and install the PWA without interacting with you? Or both?
- gramstrong 8y ago
  I'll pipe in with my experience. I worked for a company that built applications for a mostly non-technical customer group. We built a very small PWA for them to perform some daily record entry, which often occurred out in the field or in rural areas where connection is spotty. We thought it was a great use-case. They couldn't have cared less about the offline use or having the option to install it. They just liked the app. I think service workers and PWAs in general definitely serve a purpose in enhancing web applications in ways that the user might not explicitly realize, though.
  - mephitix 8y ago
    Thanks! But my question - probably not phrased well - was whether you told them about the app or whether they organically found the app and were ok with how to install it. I feel that if you know your customers well and vice versa (usually a high-touch sales model), you can tell them where the app is, how to install it, and like you said, they don't care. If you have a PWA sitting in the wild and have a low-touch sales model, I wonder how many people will actually go to that site and hit 'install to homescreen' vs looking for an app. It is a very strange approach on an iPhone. A concrete example - I don't know our company. I'm a farmer and I want a daily record entry app on my iPhone. Do I go to the app store, look for an app and go through the usual dance OR do I look on the web, find the PWA, see a prompt to 'install to homescreen!' and I'm ok with hitting OK on it. If I don't hit that 'install to homescren!' button on iPhone, I won't get things like web push notifications (which you still don't get on iPhone) which are pretty important to some apps. If I come to you, or if you send out a message personally to me and tell me to 'install to homescreen' then I'm totally fine with it.