4 ms·

> staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting Amazon Toronto starts new grads at like $80-100k last I heard. It's not as good as you can get in Sil

by mabbo 9y ago

> staying in Canada to earn $40-50k CAD per year starting Amazon Toronto starts new grads at like $80-100k last I heard. It's not as good as you can get in Silicon Valley, but rent in Toronto (while still high) is much lower than in the Valley.

sidlls 9y ago
What are rents like in Toronto? Are they $700 - $1300 per month lower (the difference of $20k - $40k net of taxes is about that)? If not, it doesn't make sense to work in Toronto. The same situation exists across the US. For example I can get a mortgage on a nice place in the Midwest that is half my current rent in SV. That amounts to about $24k/year. However I'd have take a pay cut of about $40k gross (or more) for a job with identical responsibilities and to live in a region with far fewer opportunities. It's a net loss.
- digianarchist 9y ago
  I pay $1750 CAD for a 1 bed + den near to the subway line. It's around 700 sqft.
  - sidlls 9y ago
    Here's a CL search just to show you what you could get on the Peninsula. It's not the city, but it's close enough. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?sort=priceasc&nh=71&nh=74&nh=77&nh=80&nh=87&nh=88&min_bedrooms=1&max_bedrooms=1&minSqft=600&maxSqft=800&availabilityMode=0&sale_date=all+dates https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?sort=priceasc&nh... The "near downtown San Mateo" listing is a 5-minute bike ride from Caltrain, 600sq ft and US$1785. So about CAD$600 more than your rent.
    - analyst74 9y ago
      The equivalent of $1750 Toronto condo (modern high rise with all the amenities) is going to be very hard to find in SV except some of the newer constructions at $3500~4000. A friend has a one bedroom in San Mateo in the sub $3000 range. The building is very old, no amenities or views to speak of, and not even in-suite laundry.
      - sidlls 9y ago
        Your friend is getting hosed. I have a 3 bed, 2.5 ba 1600 sq ft duplex with a yard near downtown for $4k/mo. It's older, but there's nothing wrong with it, it has a garage and a W/D, driveway, etc.
greaseball 9y ago
Developers in Toronto are getting a raw deal. The cost of living is orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the country and devs aren't making the difference up with higher wages. So glad I made the decision to move from Toronto to Atlantic Canada this past year. I'm actually making more money in New Brunswick than I did in Toronto and can afford to own a 4 bedroom house instead of renting a 600 square foot condo.
- hluska 9y ago
  I have been weighing making a move from Saskatchewan to New Brunswick. When I compare Regina to Fredericton (as an example) though, it seems like I must be missing something. On the surface, pay is generally better, the stacks/companies are more interesting, the location seems amazing, and comparable real estate is less than half. I know that Regina->NB is dramatically different from Toronto->NB, but is there anything you wish you would have known??
  - greaseball 9y ago
    Might be obvious, but the biggest thing you'll give up in this market compared to cities like Toronto or Montréal is selection. There's some larger companies with satellite offices here (IBM, Salesforce, etc), but not too many startups. One word of caution about real estate in the Fredericton area; don't buy any property too close to the river. There's usually flooding in the spring from the snow melt up stream and this year was especially bad. I was lucky enough not to be affected, but there's lots of homes taking flood damage right now.
    - hluska 9y ago
      First, I apologize. I know that the river is flooding right now and I asked you 'should I move' questions when you could have been facing a tragedy. That was very selfish of me and I'm sorry. I'm very glad you weren't affected by the flooding, and thanks for being kind, despite my gaffe!
      - 9y ago
cmrdporcupine 9y ago
Citation needed on the rents. Yes, maybe out in the suburbs, but if you want any kind of quality of life where you're not constantly commuting...
digianarchist 9y ago
Engineer with 5 years experience earning $117k CAD ($91k USD) in North York. I don't see a lot of jobs under $85k CAD in Toronto.
- cmrdporcupine 9y ago
  From what I've seen... If you consider stock options and bonuses, you could be making at least double that in the valley. Canadians getting a raw deal by comparison. Cost of living in Toronto is not half of that of the Bay Area. Most like 2/3rds.
  - digianarchist 9y ago
    What matters to me is how much I can bank at the end of the month. With that in mind I've been looking hard at Austin but I'd need a H1-B. I'm not willing to lose a quarter of my household income because my wife cannot work.
    - setsanto 9y ago
      Same problem here. I have offers in the Bay Area but my girlfriend would not be TN visa eligible due to her line of work. Rock and a hard place...
      - digianarchist 9y ago
        We just keep applying for the DV lottery. It’s a long shot but my wife qualifies. I might move on a TN visa with the understanding that my employer converts to H1-B after 12 months.
    - dagmx 9y ago
      I'm kind of in the same boat. Vancouver making 135k approximately (based on 40hr week, since wage is hourly) Have an offer at a FAANG company that when converted to CAD is the same as what my wife and I make combined. Unfortunately we'd still lose a big chunk of our household income till she can find work there. Fortunately she's American but still in a relatively niche field so might take some time.
a-priori 9y ago
For another data point: I'm an Amazon SDE2 in Ottawa making CA$225k total compensation this year (about 2/3 of that is salary). That's very good pay locally. I'm not sure I can match that anywhere else in the city. I might be able to get better in the States, even after cost-of-living increases, but what quality of life gain would there be? Would it be worthwhile to have to deal with all the crazy shit with the education and healthcare systems and the politics down there? So I'm sticking here in Canada. I just don't see the point in moving south.
- toephu2 9y ago
  "Would it be worthwhile to have to deal with all the crazy shit with the education and healthcare systems and the politics down there?" I don't know, 325M other people seem to be living with it and are not leaving in droves.
- ttul 9y ago
  Holy cow - $255K in _Ottawa_... that’s living the dream, man.

by mabbo 9y ago

sidlls 9y ago

What are rents like in Toronto? Are they $700 - $1300 per month lower (the difference of $20k - $40k net of taxes is about that)? If not, it doesn't make sense to work in Toronto. The same situation exists across the US. For example I can get a mortgage on a nice place in the Midwest that is half my current rent in SV. That amounts to about $24k/year. However I'd have take a pay cut of about $40k gross (or more) for a job with identical responsibilities and to live in a region with far fewer opportunities. It's a net loss.

digianarchist 9y ago
I pay $1750 CAD for a 1 bed + den near to the subway line. It's around 700 sqft.
- sidlls 9y ago
  Here's a CL search just to show you what you could get on the Peninsula. It's not the city, but it's close enough. https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?sort=priceasc&nh=71&nh=74&nh=77&nh=80&nh=87&nh=88&min_bedrooms=1&max_bedrooms=1&minSqft=600&maxSqft=800&availabilityMode=0&sale_date=all+dates https://sfbay.craigslist.org/search/pen/apa?sort=priceasc&nh... The "near downtown San Mateo" listing is a 5-minute bike ride from Caltrain, 600sq ft and US$1785. So about CAD$600 more than your rent.
  - analyst74 9y ago
    The equivalent of $1750 Toronto condo (modern high rise with all the amenities) is going to be very hard to find in SV except some of the newer constructions at $3500~4000. A friend has a one bedroom in San Mateo in the sub $3000 range. The building is very old, no amenities or views to speak of, and not even in-suite laundry.
    - sidlls 9y ago
      Your friend is getting hosed. I have a 3 bed, 2.5 ba 1600 sq ft duplex with a yard near downtown for $4k/mo. It's older, but there's nothing wrong with it, it has a garage and a W/D, driveway, etc.

greaseball 9y ago

Developers in Toronto are getting a raw deal. The cost of living is orders of magnitude higher than the rest of the country and devs aren't making the difference up with higher wages. So glad I made the decision to move from Toronto to Atlantic Canada this past year. I'm actually making more money in New Brunswick than I did in Toronto and can afford to own a 4 bedroom house instead of renting a 600 square foot condo.

hluska 9y ago
I have been weighing making a move from Saskatchewan to New Brunswick. When I compare Regina to Fredericton (as an example) though, it seems like I must be missing something. On the surface, pay is generally better, the stacks/companies are more interesting, the location seems amazing, and comparable real estate is less than half. I know that Regina->NB is dramatically different from Toronto->NB, but is there anything you wish you would have known??
- greaseball 9y ago
  Might be obvious, but the biggest thing you'll give up in this market compared to cities like Toronto or Montréal is selection. There's some larger companies with satellite offices here (IBM, Salesforce, etc), but not too many startups. One word of caution about real estate in the Fredericton area; don't buy any property too close to the river. There's usually flooding in the spring from the snow melt up stream and this year was especially bad. I was lucky enough not to be affected, but there's lots of homes taking flood damage right now.
  - hluska 9y ago
    First, I apologize. I know that the river is flooding right now and I asked you 'should I move' questions when you could have been facing a tragedy. That was very selfish of me and I'm sorry. I'm very glad you weren't affected by the flooding, and thanks for being kind, despite my gaffe!
    - 9y ago

cmrdporcupine 9y ago

Citation needed on the rents. Yes, maybe out in the suburbs, but if you want any kind of quality of life where you're not constantly commuting...

digianarchist 9y ago

Engineer with 5 years experience earning $117k CAD ($91k USD) in North York. I don't see a lot of jobs under $85k CAD in Toronto.

cmrdporcupine 9y ago
From what I've seen... If you consider stock options and bonuses, you could be making at least double that in the valley. Canadians getting a raw deal by comparison. Cost of living in Toronto is not half of that of the Bay Area. Most like 2/3rds.
- digianarchist 9y ago
  What matters to me is how much I can bank at the end of the month. With that in mind I've been looking hard at Austin but I'd need a H1-B. I'm not willing to lose a quarter of my household income because my wife cannot work.
  - setsanto 9y ago
    Same problem here. I have offers in the Bay Area but my girlfriend would not be TN visa eligible due to her line of work. Rock and a hard place...
    - digianarchist 9y ago
      We just keep applying for the DV lottery. It’s a long shot but my wife qualifies. I might move on a TN visa with the understanding that my employer converts to H1-B after 12 months.
  - dagmx 9y ago
    I'm kind of in the same boat. Vancouver making 135k approximately (based on 40hr week, since wage is hourly) Have an offer at a FAANG company that when converted to CAD is the same as what my wife and I make combined. Unfortunately we'd still lose a big chunk of our household income till she can find work there. Fortunately she's American but still in a relatively niche field so might take some time.

a-priori 9y ago

For another data point: I'm an Amazon SDE2 in Ottawa making CA$225k total compensation this year (about 2/3 of that is salary). That's very good pay locally. I'm not sure I can match that anywhere else in the city. I might be able to get better in the States, even after cost-of-living increases, but what quality of life gain would there be? Would it be worthwhile to have to deal with all the crazy shit with the education and healthcare systems and the politics down there? So I'm sticking here in Canada. I just don't see the point in moving south.

toephu2 9y ago
"Would it be worthwhile to have to deal with all the crazy shit with the education and healthcare systems and the politics down there?" I don't know, 325M other people seem to be living with it and are not leaving in droves.
ttul 9y ago
Holy cow - $255K in _Ottawa_... that’s living the dream, man.