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It is obvious Cloudflare has no interest in operating a real recursive DNS service. If they did, they would have provided additional backup IPs for users they k

by dsl 8y ago

It is obvious Cloudflare has no interest in operating a real recursive DNS service. If they did, they would have provided additional backup IPs for users they knew would be impacted by these issues. Building a production service on what even APNIC refers to as "research space" was foolish. If this was Cloudflares only line of business, they never would have taken such a risk.

Klathmon 8y ago
But it's a fairly low risk for both cloudflare and users. Just about all systems I've worked on allow multiple DNS IP addresses, so just set an alternate. Cloudflare doesn't make any money from this (aside from the advertising it's giving them), so it doesn't really harm them that it's broken due to 3rd party abuse/issues.
eridius 8y ago
Cloudflare does offer a backup IP: 1.0.0.1. And 2 IPv6 addresses as well.
0x0 8y ago
I think that would be counter-productive. One of the main goals is to do research on how the 1.1.1.1-like addresses work in the real world. Offering a nice and free DNS service on those addresses is almost just a side-effect, which obviously triggers real-world reactions and uproar when ISPs fail to route properly. If they had offered backup addresses, maybe ISP customers wouldn't complain as loudly, and the media / attention levels would have been lower.
eastdakota 8y ago
We (Cloudflare and APNIC) knew exactly what we were getting in to. We knew this was the only way that we'd be able to reclaim the space to be usable. And, in about a month, we've gone from 1.1.1.1 being routable by only 92% of networks to 98.7% of networks — and climbing. Don't accept that you can't change the status quo.
- dogecoinbase 8y ago
  The space is allocated for research. To what end do you imagine it will be "usable", and for whom?
  - yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
    Well, it appears to be usable to 98.7% of networks for DNS lookups;)
  - jhall1468 8y ago
    No it was not. 1.0.0.0/8 was unassigned space until 2010 when it was assigned to APNIC. It was never "allocated for research" and the reason nobody wanted it is all the cross-talk with internal devices using something they shouldn't have.
    - icedchai 8y ago
      Whois literally says 1.1.1.0/24 is a research prefix. netnum: 1.1.1.0 - 1.1.1.255 netname: APNIC-LABS descr: APNIC and Cloudflare DNS Resolver project descr: Routed globally by AS13335/Cloudflare descr: Research prefix for APNIC Labs
      - eli 8y ago
        APNIC designated 1.0.0.0/24 and 1.1.1.0/24 out of the whole /8 to APNIC Labs for "research" because they were getting so much bogus traffic. That just happened a few years ago.
        icedchai 8y ago
        I know.
- godzillabrennus 8y ago
  I’m one of the first 100 users Cloudflare had sign up when it launched. I know because you sent me a t-shirt with my domain (and the 99 others) on it. I switched over to your new DNS service the day it launched. I’m also an AT&T customer both residential and for corporate useage. It’s been fun giving them trouble to get them to route this correctly. Hopefully this is behind us now and the ip becomes properly routable by even larger parts of the Internet as you grow this. One question though, is there a plan to add typo correction? It’s the only thing I miss from using OpenDNS.
dalore 8y ago
They did. They are publicising 1.1.1.1 since it's easy to remember. But they said you can also use 1.0.0.1
- isostatic 8y ago
  Which is really handy. When testing if you're online, running "ping 1.1" is far quicker than "ping 8.8.8.8" or "ping 1.1.1.1"
  - snuxoll 8y ago
    Why am I today just learning that `ping` will stuff 0's into octets you omit from an address? All of the keystrokes I could have saved and minutes on the phone I could have saved doing `ping 192.168.1` instead!
    - a1369209993 8y ago
      It's not omitting and it's not just zeros: try `ping 127.256` and `ping 127.65536`.
    - JdeBP 8y ago
      It's not ping. It's a common C library routine used by quite a number of programs that does this. And this is old behaviour of that library function, that has been around for decades. Here's FreeBSD's library function from 1994, and it was fairly old then: * https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/FreeBSD-releng/2.0a/lib/libc/net/inet_addr.c#L103 https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/FreeBSD...
      - Jaruzel 8y ago
        I am even MORE surprised that Windows PING also supports this!
        isostatic 8y ago
        Remember the windows IP stack originated from the BSD stack
slenk 8y ago
AT&T using 1.1.1.1 as part of its internal network is even more foolish then.
- dingo_bat 8y ago
  That bigger idiots exist in the universe doesn't diminish your own stupidity.

by dsl 8y ago

Klathmon 8y ago

But it's a fairly low risk for both cloudflare and users. Just about all systems I've worked on allow multiple DNS IP addresses, so just set an alternate. Cloudflare doesn't make any money from this (aside from the advertising it's giving them), so it doesn't really harm them that it's broken due to 3rd party abuse/issues.

eridius 8y ago

Cloudflare does offer a backup IP: 1.0.0.1. And 2 IPv6 addresses as well.

0x0 8y ago

I think that would be counter-productive. One of the main goals is to do research on how the 1.1.1.1-like addresses work in the real world. Offering a nice and free DNS service on those addresses is almost just a side-effect, which obviously triggers real-world reactions and uproar when ISPs fail to route properly. If they had offered backup addresses, maybe ISP customers wouldn't complain as loudly, and the media / attention levels would have been lower.

eastdakota 8y ago

We (Cloudflare and APNIC) knew exactly what we were getting in to. We knew this was the only way that we'd be able to reclaim the space to be usable. And, in about a month, we've gone from 1.1.1.1 being routable by only 92% of networks to 98.7% of networks — and climbing. Don't accept that you can't change the status quo.

dogecoinbase 8y ago
The space is allocated for research. To what end do you imagine it will be "usable", and for whom?
- yjftsjthsd-h 8y ago
  Well, it appears to be usable to 98.7% of networks for DNS lookups;)
- jhall1468 8y ago
  No it was not. 1.0.0.0/8 was unassigned space until 2010 when it was assigned to APNIC. It was never "allocated for research" and the reason nobody wanted it is all the cross-talk with internal devices using something they shouldn't have.
  - icedchai 8y ago
    Whois literally says 1.1.1.0/24 is a research prefix. netnum: 1.1.1.0 - 1.1.1.255 netname: APNIC-LABS descr: APNIC and Cloudflare DNS Resolver project descr: Routed globally by AS13335/Cloudflare descr: Research prefix for APNIC Labs
    - eli 8y ago
      APNIC designated 1.0.0.0/24 and 1.1.1.0/24 out of the whole /8 to APNIC Labs for "research" because they were getting so much bogus traffic. That just happened a few years ago.
      - icedchai 8y ago
        I know.
godzillabrennus 8y ago
I’m one of the first 100 users Cloudflare had sign up when it launched. I know because you sent me a t-shirt with my domain (and the 99 others) on it. I switched over to your new DNS service the day it launched. I’m also an AT&T customer both residential and for corporate useage. It’s been fun giving them trouble to get them to route this correctly. Hopefully this is behind us now and the ip becomes properly routable by even larger parts of the Internet as you grow this. One question though, is there a plan to add typo correction? It’s the only thing I miss from using OpenDNS.

dalore 8y ago

They did. They are publicising 1.1.1.1 since it's easy to remember. But they said you can also use 1.0.0.1

isostatic 8y ago
Which is really handy. When testing if you're online, running "ping 1.1" is far quicker than "ping 8.8.8.8" or "ping 1.1.1.1"
- snuxoll 8y ago
  Why am I today just learning that `ping` will stuff 0's into octets you omit from an address? All of the keystrokes I could have saved and minutes on the phone I could have saved doing `ping 192.168.1` instead!
  - a1369209993 8y ago
    It's not omitting and it's not just zeros: try `ping 127.256` and `ping 127.65536`.
  - JdeBP 8y ago
    It's not ping. It's a common C library routine used by quite a number of programs that does this. And this is old behaviour of that library function, that has been around for decades. Here's FreeBSD's library function from 1994, and it was fairly old then: * https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/FreeBSD-releng/2.0a/lib/libc/net/inet_addr.c#L103 https://github.com/dspinellis/unix-history-repo/blob/FreeBSD...
    - Jaruzel 8y ago
      I am even MORE surprised that Windows PING also supports this!
      - isostatic 8y ago
        Remember the windows IP stack originated from the BSD stack

slenk 8y ago

AT&T using 1.1.1.1 as part of its internal network is even more foolish then.

dingo_bat 8y ago
That bigger idiots exist in the universe doesn't diminish your own stupidity.