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Pointless jobs like being paid to write an article about pointless jobs? Edit: For those to whom the humor didn't come across, I'm just teasing. This isn't an

by yosito 9y ago

Pointless jobs like being paid to write an article about pointless jobs? Edit: For those to whom the humor didn't come across, I'm just teasing. This isn't an attack on the author.

toomuchtodo 9y ago
Wouldn’t a constructive comment be more useful than attacking an educated academic making an observation?
- sbinthree 9y ago
  That they are educated has nothing to do with whether they are right or their points are useful broadly. It's a dramatic story from someone who themselves thinks they are more useful than they are.
- drb91 9y ago
  You’ve employed some sort of inverse ad hominem here. Credentials don’t mean we should take someone seriously. Their words should stand for themselves.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    > Credentials don’t mean we should take someone seriously. This is a level of cognitive dissonance I’m not prepared to commit to arguing against. I’m not capable of issuing the bar to every lawyer I require the services of, nor the board to every presumed doctor, nor a thesis defense to every academic. Credentials aren’t perfect, but they are superior to the time required for everyone to judge everything on their own. For example, almost all scientists agree that climate change is human caused. Do I spend my time digging through climate data, verifying this? No. I rely on the expertise of experts.
    - drb91 9y ago
      This makes sense for hiring a human. It doesn’t make sense for evaluating what they say in a general context. Credentials are fairly useless next to consensus for evaluating a given statement. Credenials have use; just not in conversation.
    - yosito 9y ago
      You've just touched on why it's so hard to get a job in tech. As a culture, we've taken an attitude that credentials don't matter, and no matter what our past achievements are, we've got to prove ourselves over and over again. Maybe credentials should matter.
    - TimmyMustGo 9y ago
      A lot of climate change "experts" are paid to generate research that is biased in order to support the agenda of whoever is paying them. Sometimes I'll see research using data that only goes back to perhaps 1970 or the 1800s for example, which is ridiculous. Climate change is the modern day religion. I wonder if the world will end up going to war over this. Personally I believe that humans are not capable of causing climate change, they are too insignificant in the grand scheme of things. And if the climate didn't change, it would be a bad thing, because that would mean that the planet is dead.
  - c22 9y ago
    An "inverse ad hominem" is called an appeal to authority[0]. I don't think gp was insinuating that the author's points were true because they are an academic, though. Only suggesting that they not be dismissed out of hand, and lobbying for more insightful commentary on hn. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
- weirdstuff 9y ago
  Then just ignore the comment! We don’t need any more HN comment policing. And academics don’t have a monopoly on making criticism.
  - toomuchtodo 9y ago
    Asking someone to be constructive isn’t policing. Why should poor behavior not illicit a comment? Keep HN high signal to noise! Edit: The crowd is free to use downvotes judiciously if calling out the disingenuous is frowned upon. That’s what they’re there for.
    - weirdstuff 9y ago
      Because 1) he made a valid point. 2) It’s noise to whom? You? Not me per se. 3) You’re claiming authority over what is acceptable on HN.
      - mfoy_ 9y ago
        >Then just ignore the comment! We don’t need any more HN comment policing. Sounds more like you're claiming authority over what is acceptable on HN...
        weirdstuff 9y ago
        You make a good and valid point. But I think I'm just refuting his/her authority, not establishing my own. Also, there's so much pushing and shoving lately it's hard not to get caught up in it. Lately HN has a very policed feel to it. I think I'm entitled to be honest about how I feel. (We all should.) In this particular case, I felt the parent to my comment was basically invaliding the honest feedback of its own parent comment. To me, that comes off as "conversation shutdown" and that's somewhat unsettling. As an aside, the more educated the arena, the worse conversation shutdown seems to feel to me. My city, for example, has a major upper-end university at its heart, and it's very on-edge right now. You can feel it, and people are talking about it (and fighting). It really affects me and seemingly the student population too. It's as if we're not allowed to be honest with each other, or audible about what's happening. I'm also wondering if these forums are worth visiting these days, for the sake of conversation. It's hard to have open, honest discussions and sometimes I get frustrated and lash out. That's my own fault. (Moreover, I'm not sure if there's much constructive conversation to be had at the moment.) Oh, the times we live in. Guess I'll log off and read some Dickens.
- anm89 9y ago
  Wouldn't independent thought be more useful than proppping up some idea based on the credentials of the person who holds it?
- KyleGalvin 9y ago
  A little tongue-in-cheek call out of the irony isn't necessarily an attack. Bullshit jobs are an interesting phenomenon and I enjoyed the article. I also chuckled at the parent comment. It doesn't have to be taken very seriously.
_rpd 9y ago
The article is quite provocative and could easily become a movement that eliminates thousands of jobs. Not at all pointless. Calling for the elimination of the army and corporate lawyers is sophomoric, but probably deliberately so.
delecti 9y ago
Even if the content of the article is entirely frivolous, isn't the existence of the discussion here proof that it has at the very least provided some entertainment? And isn't discussing a potentially enormous societal inefficiency worth doing?
monkeynotes 9y ago
At first I found some humour in the irony, but the more I think about it the article isn't really pointless. The point of it is to point out the bullshit and get people talking about that. Not only does the article have a point, but it succeeds in its purpose quite well, we are, after all, talking about pointless jobs when we weren't really thinking about them much before.

by yosito 9y ago

Pointless jobs like being paid to write an article about pointless jobs? Edit: For those to whom the humor didn't come across, I'm just teasing. This isn't an attack on the author.

toomuchtodo 9y ago

Wouldn’t a constructive comment be more useful than attacking an educated academic making an observation?

sbinthree 9y ago
That they are educated has nothing to do with whether they are right or their points are useful broadly. It's a dramatic story from someone who themselves thinks they are more useful than they are.
drb91 9y ago
You’ve employed some sort of inverse ad hominem here. Credentials don’t mean we should take someone seriously. Their words should stand for themselves.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  > Credentials don’t mean we should take someone seriously. This is a level of cognitive dissonance I’m not prepared to commit to arguing against. I’m not capable of issuing the bar to every lawyer I require the services of, nor the board to every presumed doctor, nor a thesis defense to every academic. Credentials aren’t perfect, but they are superior to the time required for everyone to judge everything on their own. For example, almost all scientists agree that climate change is human caused. Do I spend my time digging through climate data, verifying this? No. I rely on the expertise of experts.
  - drb91 9y ago
    This makes sense for hiring a human. It doesn’t make sense for evaluating what they say in a general context. Credentials are fairly useless next to consensus for evaluating a given statement. Credenials have use; just not in conversation.
  - yosito 9y ago
    You've just touched on why it's so hard to get a job in tech. As a culture, we've taken an attitude that credentials don't matter, and no matter what our past achievements are, we've got to prove ourselves over and over again. Maybe credentials should matter.
  - TimmyMustGo 9y ago
    A lot of climate change "experts" are paid to generate research that is biased in order to support the agenda of whoever is paying them. Sometimes I'll see research using data that only goes back to perhaps 1970 or the 1800s for example, which is ridiculous. Climate change is the modern day religion. I wonder if the world will end up going to war over this. Personally I believe that humans are not capable of causing climate change, they are too insignificant in the grand scheme of things. And if the climate didn't change, it would be a bad thing, because that would mean that the planet is dead.
- c22 9y ago
  An "inverse ad hominem" is called an appeal to authority[0]. I don't think gp was insinuating that the author's points were true because they are an academic, though. Only suggesting that they not be dismissed out of hand, and lobbying for more insightful commentary on hn. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority
weirdstuff 9y ago
Then just ignore the comment! We don’t need any more HN comment policing. And academics don’t have a monopoly on making criticism.
- toomuchtodo 9y ago
  Asking someone to be constructive isn’t policing. Why should poor behavior not illicit a comment? Keep HN high signal to noise! Edit: The crowd is free to use downvotes judiciously if calling out the disingenuous is frowned upon. That’s what they’re there for.
  - weirdstuff 9y ago
    Because 1) he made a valid point. 2) It’s noise to whom? You? Not me per se. 3) You’re claiming authority over what is acceptable on HN.
    - mfoy_ 9y ago
      >Then just ignore the comment! We don’t need any more HN comment policing. Sounds more like you're claiming authority over what is acceptable on HN...
      - weirdstuff 9y ago
        You make a good and valid point. But I think I'm just refuting his/her authority, not establishing my own. Also, there's so much pushing and shoving lately it's hard not to get caught up in it. Lately HN has a very policed feel to it. I think I'm entitled to be honest about how I feel. (We all should.) In this particular case, I felt the parent to my comment was basically invaliding the honest feedback of its own parent comment. To me, that comes off as "conversation shutdown" and that's somewhat unsettling. As an aside, the more educated the arena, the worse conversation shutdown seems to feel to me. My city, for example, has a major upper-end university at its heart, and it's very on-edge right now. You can feel it, and people are talking about it (and fighting). It really affects me and seemingly the student population too. It's as if we're not allowed to be honest with each other, or audible about what's happening. I'm also wondering if these forums are worth visiting these days, for the sake of conversation. It's hard to have open, honest discussions and sometimes I get frustrated and lash out. That's my own fault. (Moreover, I'm not sure if there's much constructive conversation to be had at the moment.) Oh, the times we live in. Guess I'll log off and read some Dickens.
anm89 9y ago
Wouldn't independent thought be more useful than proppping up some idea based on the credentials of the person who holds it?
KyleGalvin 9y ago
A little tongue-in-cheek call out of the irony isn't necessarily an attack. Bullshit jobs are an interesting phenomenon and I enjoyed the article. I also chuckled at the parent comment. It doesn't have to be taken very seriously.

_rpd 9y ago

The article is quite provocative and could easily become a movement that eliminates thousands of jobs. Not at all pointless. Calling for the elimination of the army and corporate lawyers is sophomoric, but probably deliberately so.

delecti 9y ago

Even if the content of the article is entirely frivolous, isn't the existence of the discussion here proof that it has at the very least provided some entertainment? And isn't discussing a potentially enormous societal inefficiency worth doing?

monkeynotes 9y ago

At first I found some humour in the irony, but the more I think about it the article isn't really pointless. The point of it is to point out the bullshit and get people talking about that. Not only does the article have a point, but it succeeds in its purpose quite well, we are, after all, talking about pointless jobs when we weren't really thinking about them much before.