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I think this "intolerance of intolerance" is becoming terrifying. I personally find "people who hate people with a different skin colour" and "people who hate

by J-dawg 8y ago

I think this "intolerance of intolerance" is becoming terrifying. I personally find "people who hate people with a different skin colour" and "people who hate women" to be repulsive. I'd prefer not to work with those people, if possible. But I accept that in a free society, I might have to. I have no special right to be protected from opinions I don't like, and nor should I. Nobody should be excluded from employment because of an opinion. And in a free society, it should never be illegal to state an opinion. We are crossing the line into thought crime here, and it's frightening to see powerful people like Ellen Pao being ok with that.

cimmanom 8y ago
It is the rare person who can prevent their hate from leaking out into their day to day interactions and making their coworkers uncomfortable - thus interfering with morale and the company's viability.
- daxorid 8y ago
  If we remove the ideological aspect of this argument entirely, what we're left with is the notion that employment is supposed to be 100% comfortable. But... In any given employment environment: chairs may be less than form-fitting; different people will have different tolerances for the thermostat setting; some employees may heat fish and durian fruit in the microwave; one may be asked to load or unload 40 foot shipping containers; being under pressure to meet a deadline is fairly normal; a boss or coworker may have an unpleasant personality, possibly even a personality disorder. In general, we expect that in many ways, employment will be uncomfortable. In general, we accept this as a nominal cost of earning a living. But once various ideologies are introduced, there is a sudden expectation that a small and specific subset of workplace interactions ought to be 100% pleasant and comfortable. Why is this?
  - cimmanom 8y ago
    If I have the choice between working somewhere where my colleague thinks he has the right to rape me if I don't sleep with him vs a place where my colleagues are respectful and have my back, where do you think I'll choose to work? And if I don't have a choice of where to work, do you think I'll be able to do my best work with that sort of threat present? It's not just about comfort (though personally I do think people have a right to a workplace where there coworkers would defend them against bodily harm rather than claim a right to inflict it). It's also about what's best for the business.
extra88 8y ago
I also prefer not to work with people with such bad views but I think I could. However, I also want to work with women and PoC and as the object of someone's hatred, it would presumably be harder for them; their absence would be worse for the organization, themselves, and me personally. My starting point is I don't think what you say or do outside the workplace should have bearing on your employment. Lots of people have bad, crazy ideas that don't significantly affect their performance.

by J-dawg 8y ago

cimmanom 8y ago

It is the rare person who can prevent their hate from leaking out into their day to day interactions and making their coworkers uncomfortable - thus interfering with morale and the company's viability.

daxorid 8y ago
If we remove the ideological aspect of this argument entirely, what we're left with is the notion that employment is supposed to be 100% comfortable. But... In any given employment environment: chairs may be less than form-fitting; different people will have different tolerances for the thermostat setting; some employees may heat fish and durian fruit in the microwave; one may be asked to load or unload 40 foot shipping containers; being under pressure to meet a deadline is fairly normal; a boss or coworker may have an unpleasant personality, possibly even a personality disorder. In general, we expect that in many ways, employment will be uncomfortable. In general, we accept this as a nominal cost of earning a living. But once various ideologies are introduced, there is a sudden expectation that a small and specific subset of workplace interactions ought to be 100% pleasant and comfortable. Why is this?
- cimmanom 8y ago
  If I have the choice between working somewhere where my colleague thinks he has the right to rape me if I don't sleep with him vs a place where my colleagues are respectful and have my back, where do you think I'll choose to work? And if I don't have a choice of where to work, do you think I'll be able to do my best work with that sort of threat present? It's not just about comfort (though personally I do think people have a right to a workplace where there coworkers would defend them against bodily harm rather than claim a right to inflict it). It's also about what's best for the business.

extra88 8y ago

I also prefer not to work with people with such bad views but I think I could. However, I also want to work with women and PoC and as the object of someone's hatred, it would presumably be harder for them; their absence would be worse for the organization, themselves, and me personally. My starting point is I don't think what you say or do outside the workplace should have bearing on your employment. Lots of people have bad, crazy ideas that don't significantly affect their performance.