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> we know we have unconscious biases to people who are of the same race If that would be true, this wouldn't happen: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bil

by voidr 8y ago

> we know we have unconscious biases to people who are of the same race If that would be true, this wouldn't happen: http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-trial-to-improve-gender-equality-failing-study/8664888 http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-30/bilnd-recruitment-tria... > Especially for internships where there isn't even a professional history to compare. You give them a technical test and whoever scores the most wins, if they score equally, you can pick at random.

foldr 8y ago
And if it wasn't true, this wouldn't happen: https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/... You can't conclude too much from an isolated example.
- voidr 8y ago
  > You can't conclude too much from an isolated example. You can conclude that the effects of implicit bias are not well understood and maybe we should study it a little bit more before we treat it as absolute truth and factor it into decision making.
  - foldr 8y ago
    I don't see how I could conclude anything about how well understood implicit bias is from one or two examples of it materializing or failing to materialize.
    - voidr 8y ago
      People thought they understood it, they started applying policies around it and then their assumptions turned out to be false, hence me saying it's not well understood.
corey_moncure 8y ago
From the article: >"We should hit pause and be very cautious about introducing this as a way of improving diversity, as it can have the opposite effect," Professor Hiscox said. To me, this quote succinctly expresses the whole problem behind the push for "diversity" (a term which I have never seen rigorously defined by its exponents) in technology fields. By trying to fix the results with artificial means, they place the cart before the horse. They attempt to fix a painting they perceive to be damaged by doodling over top of it. There appears to be no self-reflection when unintended consequences occur. They did a study where they attempt to remove all bias, but they got results they didn't like, and so we should "hit pause"? Why should we ever hit pause on removing bias and discrimination from our society?
nicoburns 8y ago
> You give them a technical test and whoever scores the most wins, if they score equally, you can pick at random. The thing is that people don't have equal opportunity to prepare for the technical test. Thus the people who do best might not be the best for the job. Especially as a lot of value can be obtained from hiring someone with a different perspective on life, which the hiring manager might not appreciate (as the other perspective doesn't align with theirs).

by voidr 8y ago

foldr 8y ago

And if it wasn't true, this wouldn't happen: https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/blind-auditions-orchestras-gender-bias https://www.theguardian.com/women-in-leadership/2013/oct/14/... You can't conclude too much from an isolated example.

voidr 8y ago
> You can't conclude too much from an isolated example. You can conclude that the effects of implicit bias are not well understood and maybe we should study it a little bit more before we treat it as absolute truth and factor it into decision making.
- foldr 8y ago
  I don't see how I could conclude anything about how well understood implicit bias is from one or two examples of it materializing or failing to materialize.
  - voidr 8y ago
    People thought they understood it, they started applying policies around it and then their assumptions turned out to be false, hence me saying it's not well understood.

corey_moncure 8y ago

From the article: >"We should hit pause and be very cautious about introducing this as a way of improving diversity, as it can have the opposite effect," Professor Hiscox said. To me, this quote succinctly expresses the whole problem behind the push for "diversity" (a term which I have never seen rigorously defined by its exponents) in technology fields. By trying to fix the results with artificial means, they place the cart before the horse. They attempt to fix a painting they perceive to be damaged by doodling over top of it. There appears to be no self-reflection when unintended consequences occur. They did a study where they attempt to remove all bias, but they got results they didn't like, and so we should "hit pause"? Why should we ever hit pause on removing bias and discrimination from our society?

nicoburns 8y ago

> You give them a technical test and whoever scores the most wins, if they score equally, you can pick at random. The thing is that people don't have equal opportunity to prepare for the technical test. Thus the people who do best might not be the best for the job. Especially as a lot of value can be obtained from hiring someone with a different perspective on life, which the hiring manager might not appreciate (as the other perspective doesn't align with theirs).