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Yes and it's very bizarre. Here are the notes on the two amendments: > One would make it illegal to “weaponize” consumer drones. > The other — and arguably m

Yes and it's very bizarre. Here are the notes on the two amendments: > One would make it illegal to “weaponize” consumer drones. > The other — and arguably more important — amendment would require drones that fly beyond their operators’ line of sight to broadcast an identity allowing law enforcement to track and connect them to a real person. Literally neither of these would have had any effect on the case at hand. I'm reminded of gun control legislation - except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement and quadcopters are very ineffective at killing people.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
>except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement You can't? While the equipment isn't something everyone owns, there are those who do own it and can do it.
- dkoubsky 8y ago
  While not quite from scratch, I have built guns. I might add that it is a very interesting and educational experience for anyone interested. Also, know that so long as you aren't a felon and the gun you build complies with federal and state laws, it is completely legal to do so.
  - unit91 8y ago
    You've assembled guns, probably, from parts you purchased. Like Legos. I doubt very much that too many people are hammer-forging 7075 receivers in their garages...
    - friesen 8y ago
      Likewise, I doubt that too many people are etching flight controller PCBs and building brushless motors from scratch in their garages.
    - djrogers 8y ago
      You’d be surprised then - first of all, no “hammer-forging” is required, nor is 7075 whatever. Take this for example (warning, language!) https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/ https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-...
      - unit91 8y ago
        This is actually my point. It didn't say "no one" is doing it. Even though his means are very crude, he still needs a furnace, a welder, and a lot of other tooling (receiver jig, etc.) to get to the point where he can use a bucket of pre-fab parts (most notably the barrel). That guy is building a receiver, then assembling. Most people who are into it are just assembling.
    - ImSkeptical 8y ago
      For an expansive definition of "gun" you can absolutely make them yourself. The term "zip gun" refers to homemade or improvised guns and there's a huge variety. A gun is a lot simpler than a quadcopter. You need a place to hold a bullet, a barrel to direct the bullet, and a hammer to strike the bullet, and that's about it.
    - PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
      Drawing back to the original point, who is building a drone, or anything. There is only one guy I know of (primitive technology on you tube), and the most advanced thing hes made is a hatchet and charcoal. This is like saying you didn't make homemade bread if you didn't grow the wheat out back. It is a pointless statement countering an assertion no one asserted because the rest of us know that home made bread means from store bought ingredients unless specified otherwise.
  - ataturk 8y ago
    From scratch, as in from bar stock and other raw metals? Yes, very easily, in fact. It's technology that is well over 200 years old. Machine guns are 100+ years old. Making primers and smokeless powder might be tricky, but the mechanical stuff is easy peasy.
Mononokay 8y ago
> I'm reminded of gun control legislation - except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement Blatantly false for that bit, but I agree with the rest of what you're saying. > The other — and arguably more important — amendment would require drones that fly beyond their operators’ line of sight to broadcast an identity allowing law enforcement to track and connect them to a real person. Not terribly hard to circumvent, just put in the data of a public official.
- uxp 8y ago
  I'm in agreement here. I don't think the article had even the slightest hint of wanting to illegalize drones (unlike the strawman of "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"), but rather that if someone is found to be operating a drone in a weaponized manner then an additional criminal charge can be applied, much like simple robbery can be increased to robbery with a deadly weapon when the suspect uses a gun. To bring it back, it is perfectly legal to build guns or even vehicles in your basement or garage, but if you wish to operate either of them then they must conform to some standards in order to make them legal. Same with quadcopters, if you build one in your basement and wish to operate it legally, it should be required to identify you as the owner. Whether that is compiling in a hash identifier that's tied to a national database of registered operators, or a postit note with your name on it taped to the bottom is irrelevant. If you're found operating a drone without the identifier, you should be charged with violating the laws. There will always be people that build untraceable "ghost" drones or guns, but from my quick research untraceable guns make up less than one percent of all known weapons used in crimes. Until it starts reaching a couple percent, it seems like off the shelf guns or drones will continue to be the issue. There is almost zero barrier to entry outside of cost to owning a drone. They'll continue to become cheaper as time moves on, so the problem will only get worse. Until they get banned entirely, drones made in a non-production facility like a basement intended to evade law enforcement are a non-issue.
HillaryBriss 8y ago
> build a gun from scratch i dunno. i hear these 'backyard' gun makers in the Philippines are pretty advanced https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/04/08/backyard-gun-shops-in-the-philippines/ https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/04/08/backyard-gun-sh...
thinkmilitant 8y ago
>except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement Can't build a a very sophisticated gun, but it is certainly possible to fabricate something that shoots bullets after nothing but a trip to the hardware store. For both your legal and physical well being, I do not recommend trying it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
louky 8y ago
You might want to look into "black pipe shotguns". You can build a federally legal gun in the US for under $20 with parts from Home Depot. In minutes, with only very basic hand tools like a drill.

PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago

>except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement You can't? While the equipment isn't something everyone owns, there are those who do own it and can do it.

dkoubsky 8y ago
While not quite from scratch, I have built guns. I might add that it is a very interesting and educational experience for anyone interested. Also, know that so long as you aren't a felon and the gun you build complies with federal and state laws, it is completely legal to do so.
- unit91 8y ago
  You've assembled guns, probably, from parts you purchased. Like Legos. I doubt very much that too many people are hammer-forging 7075 receivers in their garages...
  - friesen 8y ago
    Likewise, I doubt that too many people are etching flight controller PCBs and building brushless motors from scratch in their garages.
  - djrogers 8y ago
    You’d be surprised then - first of all, no “hammer-forging” is required, nor is 7075 whatever. Take this for example (warning, language!) https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-photo-tsunami-warning.179192/ https://www.northeastshooters.com/xen/threads/diy-shovel-ak-...
    - unit91 8y ago
      This is actually my point. It didn't say "no one" is doing it. Even though his means are very crude, he still needs a furnace, a welder, and a lot of other tooling (receiver jig, etc.) to get to the point where he can use a bucket of pre-fab parts (most notably the barrel). That guy is building a receiver, then assembling. Most people who are into it are just assembling.
  - ImSkeptical 8y ago
    For an expansive definition of "gun" you can absolutely make them yourself. The term "zip gun" refers to homemade or improvised guns and there's a huge variety. A gun is a lot simpler than a quadcopter. You need a place to hold a bullet, a barrel to direct the bullet, and a hammer to strike the bullet, and that's about it.
  - PurpleBoxDragon 8y ago
    Drawing back to the original point, who is building a drone, or anything. There is only one guy I know of (primitive technology on you tube), and the most advanced thing hes made is a hatchet and charcoal. This is like saying you didn't make homemade bread if you didn't grow the wheat out back. It is a pointless statement countering an assertion no one asserted because the rest of us know that home made bread means from store bought ingredients unless specified otherwise.
- ataturk 8y ago
  From scratch, as in from bar stock and other raw metals? Yes, very easily, in fact. It's technology that is well over 200 years old. Machine guns are 100+ years old. Making primers and smokeless powder might be tricky, but the mechanical stuff is easy peasy.

Mononokay 8y ago

> I'm reminded of gun control legislation - except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement Blatantly false for that bit, but I agree with the rest of what you're saying. > The other — and arguably more important — amendment would require drones that fly beyond their operators’ line of sight to broadcast an identity allowing law enforcement to track and connect them to a real person. Not terribly hard to circumvent, just put in the data of a public official.

uxp 8y ago
I'm in agreement here. I don't think the article had even the slightest hint of wanting to illegalize drones (unlike the strawman of "if guns are outlawed only outlaws will have guns"), but rather that if someone is found to be operating a drone in a weaponized manner then an additional criminal charge can be applied, much like simple robbery can be increased to robbery with a deadly weapon when the suspect uses a gun. To bring it back, it is perfectly legal to build guns or even vehicles in your basement or garage, but if you wish to operate either of them then they must conform to some standards in order to make them legal. Same with quadcopters, if you build one in your basement and wish to operate it legally, it should be required to identify you as the owner. Whether that is compiling in a hash identifier that's tied to a national database of registered operators, or a postit note with your name on it taped to the bottom is irrelevant. If you're found operating a drone without the identifier, you should be charged with violating the laws. There will always be people that build untraceable "ghost" drones or guns, but from my quick research untraceable guns make up less than one percent of all known weapons used in crimes. Until it starts reaching a couple percent, it seems like off the shelf guns or drones will continue to be the issue. There is almost zero barrier to entry outside of cost to owning a drone. They'll continue to become cheaper as time moves on, so the problem will only get worse. Until they get banned entirely, drones made in a non-production facility like a basement intended to evade law enforcement are a non-issue.

HillaryBriss 8y ago

> build a gun from scratch i dunno. i hear these 'backyard' gun makers in the Philippines are pretty advanced https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/04/08/backyard-gun-shops-in-the-philippines/ https://www.everydaynodaysoff.com/2013/04/08/backyard-gun-sh...

thinkmilitant 8y ago

>except you can't build a gun from scratch in your basement Can't build a a very sophisticated gun, but it is certainly possible to fabricate something that shoots bullets after nothing but a trip to the hardware store. For both your legal and physical well being, I do not recommend trying it. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm

louky 8y ago

You might want to look into "black pipe shotguns". You can build a federally legal gun in the US for under $20 with parts from Home Depot. In minutes, with only very basic hand tools like a drill.