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There is a reason why Aikido is not used in MMA: Because it's completely ineffectual in a real fight.

rusk 8y ago
It's not great for entertainment value either. I mean it's an art that has at its very essence the eschewance of conflict. I can't speak for the efficacy of Aikido against an actual trained fighter in some other code, but if it worked the way it was meant to you'd pretty much be watching one guy dodging another guys attacks until eventually he pins him in an arm lock. Fight over.
- MikkoFinell 8y ago
  I had a feeling someone was gonna post this argument: that Aikido is in actually too effective to be used in MMA. It's in fact so good defensively that there is no point in even using it :^)
  - rusk 8y ago
    It's not that it's too effective for MMA, it's that it's wholly ineffective as a sport ... It's like using a slipper to bang a nail into a wall. Yeah it kind of works but that's not what it's for ...
YorickPeterse 8y ago
Something not being used in MMA doesn't necessarily mean it's completely useless, it just means it doesn't fit MMA. The sport isn't static, instead it changes as new ideas and techniques come and go. If my memory serves me right, Jiu-Jitsu wasn't used in the professional (western) fighting scene for quite a while. Today it's pretty much a must-have for MMA. The same goes the other way around. Being an expert in Jiu-Jitsu means squat when your opponent is holding a gun, and standing 10m away from you. In other words: different flavours of martial arts/self-defence have different applications, though I would certainly consider some to be very ineffective in most situations.
- MikkoFinell 8y ago
  > Something not being used in MMA doesn't necessarily mean it's completely useless, it just means it doesn't fit MMA. The sport isn't static, instead it changes as new ideas and techniques come and go. We agree about that. The thing is, if Aikido could deliver what it promises, namely that you are able to effortlessly throw people to the ground when they try to strike you, then you could be sure fighters would use those techniques.
  - rusk 8y ago
    This is a good point. Again I think it speaks more to the cosy contrived environment of the Octagon vs a real world situation. You throw a hardened fighter through the air and he'll hit the fence or the canvas and bounce back up. This is precisely what you don't want to do, Aikidoka or otherwise. You want to gain control and retain it for the full 5 minutes.
    - MikkoFinell 8y ago
      > You throw a hardened fighter through the air and he'll hit the fence or the canvas and bounce back up. > This is precisely what you don't want to do, Aikidoka or otherwise. I'm sorry, but are you joking? I don't think you have even watched 5 minutes of MMA (and I'm certain you've never trained) if you actually believe that.
      - rusk 8y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean? You said it yourself you never see a fighter doing this ...
- keithnz 8y ago
  Thing is, given a number of actual fighting contexts, jiujitsu is super effective. Not so much with aikido, it's like the air guitar of the martial arts world. The gun argument is meaningless. Anything of any use and effectiveness can always be imagined in a context where it wouldn't be useful.

rusk 8y ago

It's not great for entertainment value either. I mean it's an art that has at its very essence the eschewance of conflict. I can't speak for the efficacy of Aikido against an actual trained fighter in some other code, but if it worked the way it was meant to you'd pretty much be watching one guy dodging another guys attacks until eventually he pins him in an arm lock. Fight over.

MikkoFinell 8y ago
I had a feeling someone was gonna post this argument: that Aikido is in actually too effective to be used in MMA. It's in fact so good defensively that there is no point in even using it :^)
- rusk 8y ago
  It's not that it's too effective for MMA, it's that it's wholly ineffective as a sport ... It's like using a slipper to bang a nail into a wall. Yeah it kind of works but that's not what it's for ...

YorickPeterse 8y ago

Something not being used in MMA doesn't necessarily mean it's completely useless, it just means it doesn't fit MMA. The sport isn't static, instead it changes as new ideas and techniques come and go. If my memory serves me right, Jiu-Jitsu wasn't used in the professional (western) fighting scene for quite a while. Today it's pretty much a must-have for MMA. The same goes the other way around. Being an expert in Jiu-Jitsu means squat when your opponent is holding a gun, and standing 10m away from you. In other words: different flavours of martial arts/self-defence have different applications, though I would certainly consider some to be very ineffective in most situations.

MikkoFinell 8y ago
> Something not being used in MMA doesn't necessarily mean it's completely useless, it just means it doesn't fit MMA. The sport isn't static, instead it changes as new ideas and techniques come and go. We agree about that. The thing is, if Aikido could deliver what it promises, namely that you are able to effortlessly throw people to the ground when they try to strike you, then you could be sure fighters would use those techniques.
- rusk 8y ago
  This is a good point. Again I think it speaks more to the cosy contrived environment of the Octagon vs a real world situation. You throw a hardened fighter through the air and he'll hit the fence or the canvas and bounce back up. This is precisely what you don't want to do, Aikidoka or otherwise. You want to gain control and retain it for the full 5 minutes.
  - MikkoFinell 8y ago
    > You throw a hardened fighter through the air and he'll hit the fence or the canvas and bounce back up. > This is precisely what you don't want to do, Aikidoka or otherwise. I'm sorry, but are you joking? I don't think you have even watched 5 minutes of MMA (and I'm certain you've never trained) if you actually believe that.
    - rusk 8y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean? You said it yourself you never see a fighter doing this ...
keithnz 8y ago
Thing is, given a number of actual fighting contexts, jiujitsu is super effective. Not so much with aikido, it's like the air guitar of the martial arts world. The gun argument is meaningless. Anything of any use and effectiveness can always be imagined in a context where it wouldn't be useful.