4 ms·

None of those digitized things really are what the SID is about though, nor do they show it off for what it really is; a synthesizer for playing 3-channel tunes

by jammi 8y ago

None of those digitized things really are what the SID is about though, nor do they show it off for what it really is; a synthesizer for playing 3-channel tunes like these: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wbwKdV89pE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wbwKdV89pE For digitized sound, the SID isn't different from something like a PC beeper.

vardump 8y ago
> None of those digitized things really are what the SID is about though Fair enough. Although cubase64 does use SID features in an innovate way. > For digitized sound, the SID isn't different from something like a PC beeper. C64 is way superior for playing samples compared to PC beeper. Only commonality is that it takes high amount of CPU cycles, in the linked example all of it.
- jammi 8y ago
  A PC beeper can sound just as good, when used on a fast enough PC and the beeper output is connected to something better than the built-in piezo speaker. Even on the original IBM PC, you could make it sound almost as good by very careful optimization and close to 100% of allocation of CPU cycles, like shown at the end of the 8088 MPH demo: https://youtu.be/hNRO7lno_DM?t=6m52s https://youtu.be/hNRO7lno_DM?t=6m52s
  - vardump 8y ago
    We can agree to disagree, I just don't think PC beeper can in any realistic circumstances sound as good as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PF5DSpjgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PF5DSpjgM
    - jammi 8y ago
      How about this? There are also plenty of DOS PC-speaker-savvy demos from the 90s on pouet.net and scene.org, but there are apparently no recordings of them on youtube without sound card configurations. Some of the late DOS games also had awesome PC-speaker support. There was also a Windows sound driver for the PC speaker in Windows 3.1 times, maybe Windows 95 as well. Basically; the faster the PC, the higher the sampling rate you can go. The sound output on Raspberry Pis and some of the cheaper USB sound cards are also very similar to having stereo PC speakers, since that's also about just dumb bit-banged PWM. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV1EMcH316s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV1EMcH316s
      - vardump 8y ago
        Not bad, but that C64 demo sounds clearly better. C64 can have something between 6-8 bits of resolution per sample using a trick invented by Mahoney (https://livet.se/mahoney/c64-files/Musik_RunStop_Technical_Details_by_Pex_Mahoney_Tufvesson_v2.pdf https://livet.se/mahoney/c64-files/Musik_RunStop_Technical_D...). Mostly I remember this type of sound, even at higher sample rate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fErwWtkMS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fErwWtkMS4 I wrote a noise shaping PC-beeper PWM converter in the nineties, oversampling at maybe 500 kHz or so. It still sounded very tinny. (First version was without shaping, and it had an annoying high frequency pitch.) > Basically; the faster the PC, the higher the sampling rate you can go. Not really, io-port (outb) encounters a brick wall pretty early. So no matter how fast the CPU is, you can't toggle the speaker any faster.

by jammi 8y ago

vardump 8y ago

> None of those digitized things really are what the SID is about though Fair enough. Although cubase64 does use SID features in an innovate way. > For digitized sound, the SID isn't different from something like a PC beeper. C64 is way superior for playing samples compared to PC beeper. Only commonality is that it takes high amount of CPU cycles, in the linked example all of it.

jammi 8y ago
A PC beeper can sound just as good, when used on a fast enough PC and the beeper output is connected to something better than the built-in piezo speaker. Even on the original IBM PC, you could make it sound almost as good by very careful optimization and close to 100% of allocation of CPU cycles, like shown at the end of the 8088 MPH demo: https://youtu.be/hNRO7lno_DM?t=6m52s https://youtu.be/hNRO7lno_DM?t=6m52s
- vardump 8y ago
  We can agree to disagree, I just don't think PC beeper can in any realistic circumstances sound as good as this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PF5DSpjgM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U7PF5DSpjgM
  - jammi 8y ago
    How about this? There are also plenty of DOS PC-speaker-savvy demos from the 90s on pouet.net and scene.org, but there are apparently no recordings of them on youtube without sound card configurations. Some of the late DOS games also had awesome PC-speaker support. There was also a Windows sound driver for the PC speaker in Windows 3.1 times, maybe Windows 95 as well. Basically; the faster the PC, the higher the sampling rate you can go. The sound output on Raspberry Pis and some of the cheaper USB sound cards are also very similar to having stereo PC speakers, since that's also about just dumb bit-banged PWM. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV1EMcH316s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dV1EMcH316s
    - vardump 8y ago
      Not bad, but that C64 demo sounds clearly better. C64 can have something between 6-8 bits of resolution per sample using a trick invented by Mahoney (https://livet.se/mahoney/c64-files/Musik_RunStop_Technical_Details_by_Pex_Mahoney_Tufvesson_v2.pdf https://livet.se/mahoney/c64-files/Musik_RunStop_Technical_D...). Mostly I remember this type of sound, even at higher sample rate: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fErwWtkMS4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fErwWtkMS4 I wrote a noise shaping PC-beeper PWM converter in the nineties, oversampling at maybe 500 kHz or so. It still sounded very tinny. (First version was without shaping, and it had an annoying high frequency pitch.) > Basically; the faster the PC, the higher the sampling rate you can go. Not really, io-port (outb) encounters a brick wall pretty early. So no matter how fast the CPU is, you can't toggle the speaker any faster.