6 ms·

IE9 could be outdated in a few weeks, Sauce Labs says

25 points by admc 16y ago

“Microsoft didn’t learn its lesson with the way it approached IE9,” he said. (Jason Huggins)

davcro 16y ago
I started building a new app and was bummed when I discovered Chrome didn't support the Html5 File API. The next day Chrome 6 was released along with said API support. Now the canary version includes WebGL support. These guys are moving FAST. IE9 doesn't stand a chance.
- hugs 16y ago
  Exactly. Is anyone standing up and demanding that Google release more slowly?
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    I could totally see somebody in the big companies starting to whine to the press and demand exactly that, if Microsoft picks up the pace to match Googles. I just hope they only whine about it, and don't go to their lobbyists.
    - Someone 16y ago
      If Microsoft moves to forced automatic updates of IE, I bet somebody would see a business opportunity and grab it: take WebKit and hack in IE (and COM components) compatibility. Such a product could be worth quite a bit to companies with large IE-only sites. In fact, the release of IE9 may already be enough to create that market. The main problem I see with this is that it may be very hard to make a sufficiently-compatible IE clone.
      - chc 16y ago
        Surely it would be easier to hack around the forced updates than to turn Webkit into Trident.
CWuestefeld 16y ago
tl;dr: Sauce Labs believes that not only should Microsoft rev their browser much more quickly, but that -- like Chrome -- the update process should be transparent and pretty much mandatory. It seems to me that they completely fail to understand the costs associated with maintenance of corporate systems. It's inconceivable to me that they could take this so lightly. Having rapid changes (even if they're smaller) with little control of when they are deployed is a recipe for disaster for many IT organizations, and thus a good way to get your product kicked out of the enterprise.
- hugs 16y ago
  I didn't fail to understand it. I worked for years in corporate IT and have maintained and upgraded enterprise systems (PeopleSoft/Oracle) on slow (1 year+) upgrade cycles. Those days should die. And I came to that opinion from direct in the trenches experience in that kind of environment.
  - kevingadd 16y ago
    Switching to a Chrome-style update process for IE wouldn't do anything to solve the problem, though. Either enterprises would never upgrade to IE9 because they want control over update deployment, or they'd upgrade to a special crippled version of IE9 that updates at their discretion like how Windows Update works in enterprise deployments. Either way, web developers would still have to deal with tons of machines on old, broken IE. Enterprise environments are the problem here, MS's deployment model is just a symptom. Edit: To clarify, my point is not that automatic updates wouldn't work, but that enterprise environments are such a large part of the current internet that web developers cannot ignore them. I'd rather have enterprise users on 'Outdated IE9' that I have to deal with than have 'Oh, are these customers on IE9.0.1.2, IE9.0.1.3, or IE9.0.1.4?'.
    - tomjen3 16y ago
      They would have to update eventually and the old versions of IE would no longer be updated w.r.t security, so they would have to install IE9. Microsoft is under no obligation to provide a crippled version of IE9, and while the companies would whine a lot, they would fall in line (it is not like they would install Linux on the desktop instead, or even use Firefox).
deleted 16y ago
[deleted]
GBKS 16y ago
IE8 has actually never worked for me since it came out. It takes forever to start up and gets stuck loading any page so I never get beyond a white screen. IE9 can only be a step forward.
- harshpotatoes 16y ago
  I've found that once I install chrome, IE8 gets very messed up causing similar symptoms, but if I go to: internet options -> advanced -> reset internet explorer settings, everything is fixed for some odd reason...
AndrewDucker 16y ago
Microsoft have breaking changes in the move from IE8 to IE9. If your company is dependent on hundreds of in-house web apps, or worse - dependent on bought-in webapps that you can't fix yourself then being forced to upgrade is insanity. Sure, Microsoft should release new versions of IE more quickly than they currently do, but they shouldn't be dropping support for older versions.
- mey 16y ago
  Microsoft has been advertising that IE6 is being depreciated with their support agreements, any company migrating to Vista/7, and through IE7/IE8 and IE9 developer previews. Any IT department that hasn't picked up that hint that's been running for the past 4 years has no excuse. Just like Microsoft doesn't support Win95 anymore, they do have explicit ends to the support of their applications, and IE6 is certainly one of them.
jimbobimbo 16y ago
While I agree with the notion that there're internal systems that can't keep up with the fast pace of upgrades, those days are gone - IE9 is standard-compliant browser. As long as you develop standard-compliant web site, it doesn't really matter what version of browser you use in the future. Those who depend on IE6 will stick to IE6 anyway, because IE9 is not compatible* with IE6 from the day one. * Probably, it is, in quirks mode or something like that.
ollysb 16y ago
Why not have an IE6 compatibility mode? Central IT could maintain a list of domains that require the mode to be switched on.
- hellweaver666 16y ago
  Why can't they release ActiveX as a plugin (like Flash, Shockwave etc). Then the big corporates could use any browser they liked with the ActiveX plugin so their shitty old apps would continue to work! Obviously... there would have to be a limit to who could get this plugin - we don't want people installing ActiveX all over again unless they really need it!

25 points by admc 16y ago

“Microsoft didn’t learn its lesson with the way it approached IE9,” he said. (Jason Huggins)

I started building a new app and was bummed when I discovered Chrome didn't support the Html5 File API. The next day Chrome 6 was released along with said API support. Now the canary version includes WebGL support. These guys are moving FAST. IE9 doesn't stand a chance.

hugs 16y ago
Exactly. Is anyone standing up and demanding that Google release more slowly?
- tomjen3 16y ago
  I could totally see somebody in the big companies starting to whine to the press and demand exactly that, if Microsoft picks up the pace to match Googles. I just hope they only whine about it, and don't go to their lobbyists.
  - Someone 16y ago
    If Microsoft moves to forced automatic updates of IE, I bet somebody would see a business opportunity and grab it: take WebKit and hack in IE (and COM components) compatibility. Such a product could be worth quite a bit to companies with large IE-only sites. In fact, the release of IE9 may already be enough to create that market. The main problem I see with this is that it may be very hard to make a sufficiently-compatible IE clone.
    - chc 16y ago
      Surely it would be easier to hack around the forced updates than to turn Webkit into Trident.

CWuestefeld 16y ago

tl;dr: Sauce Labs believes that not only should Microsoft rev their browser much more quickly, but that -- like Chrome -- the update process should be transparent and pretty much mandatory. It seems to me that they completely fail to understand the costs associated with maintenance of corporate systems. It's inconceivable to me that they could take this so lightly. Having rapid changes (even if they're smaller) with little control of when they are deployed is a recipe for disaster for many IT organizations, and thus a good way to get your product kicked out of the enterprise.

hugs 16y ago
I didn't fail to understand it. I worked for years in corporate IT and have maintained and upgraded enterprise systems (PeopleSoft/Oracle) on slow (1 year+) upgrade cycles. Those days should die. And I came to that opinion from direct in the trenches experience in that kind of environment.
- kevingadd 16y ago
  Switching to a Chrome-style update process for IE wouldn't do anything to solve the problem, though. Either enterprises would never upgrade to IE9 because they want control over update deployment, or they'd upgrade to a special crippled version of IE9 that updates at their discretion like how Windows Update works in enterprise deployments. Either way, web developers would still have to deal with tons of machines on old, broken IE. Enterprise environments are the problem here, MS's deployment model is just a symptom. Edit: To clarify, my point is not that automatic updates wouldn't work, but that enterprise environments are such a large part of the current internet that web developers cannot ignore them. I'd rather have enterprise users on 'Outdated IE9' that I have to deal with than have 'Oh, are these customers on IE9.0.1.2, IE9.0.1.3, or IE9.0.1.4?'.
  - tomjen3 16y ago
    They would have to update eventually and the old versions of IE would no longer be updated w.r.t security, so they would have to install IE9. Microsoft is under no obligation to provide a crippled version of IE9, and while the companies would whine a lot, they would fall in line (it is not like they would install Linux on the desktop instead, or even use Firefox).

deleted 16y ago

[deleted]

GBKS 16y ago

IE8 has actually never worked for me since it came out. It takes forever to start up and gets stuck loading any page so I never get beyond a white screen. IE9 can only be a step forward.

harshpotatoes 16y ago
I've found that once I install chrome, IE8 gets very messed up causing similar symptoms, but if I go to: internet options -> advanced -> reset internet explorer settings, everything is fixed for some odd reason...

AndrewDucker 16y ago

Microsoft have breaking changes in the move from IE8 to IE9. If your company is dependent on hundreds of in-house web apps, or worse - dependent on bought-in webapps that you can't fix yourself then being forced to upgrade is insanity. Sure, Microsoft should release new versions of IE more quickly than they currently do, but they shouldn't be dropping support for older versions.

mey 16y ago
Microsoft has been advertising that IE6 is being depreciated with their support agreements, any company migrating to Vista/7, and through IE7/IE8 and IE9 developer previews. Any IT department that hasn't picked up that hint that's been running for the past 4 years has no excuse. Just like Microsoft doesn't support Win95 anymore, they do have explicit ends to the support of their applications, and IE6 is certainly one of them.

jimbobimbo 16y ago

While I agree with the notion that there're internal systems that can't keep up with the fast pace of upgrades, those days are gone - IE9 is standard-compliant browser. As long as you develop standard-compliant web site, it doesn't really matter what version of browser you use in the future. Those who depend on IE6 will stick to IE6 anyway, because IE9 is not compatible* with IE6 from the day one. * Probably, it is, in quirks mode or something like that.

ollysb 16y ago

Why not have an IE6 compatibility mode? Central IT could maintain a list of domains that require the mode to be switched on.

hellweaver666 16y ago
Why can't they release ActiveX as a plugin (like Flash, Shockwave etc). Then the big corporates could use any browser they liked with the ActiveX plugin so their shitty old apps would continue to work! Obviously... there would have to be a limit to who could get this plugin - we don't want people installing ActiveX all over again unless they really need it!