5 ms·

E coli don't rinse off; they form a biofilm with significant adhesion. You have to cook them to kill them.

by brians 8y ago

Alupis 8y ago
You're right - I think it was more-or-less to prevent norovirus and other forms of food poisoning.
- greglindahl 8y ago
  Doesn't Norovirus mostly spread from people not washing their hands after they poop?
goldenkey 8y ago
Once I found out about biofilms from the cat fountain I built from NSF silver infused antimicrobial tubing, I never can look at plumbing piping the same. Biofilm formed even on the parts that should have been impervious. Even areas where water is constantly running and splashing. First the minerals deposit on the antimicrobial surfaces, and then the bacteria attach and film. I had always thought that constant high pressure water usage would flush whatever crap is in a pipe. Preventing any real contamination. Well...a quick google search shows that biofilm on residential water pipes is a huge problem. High pressure activity does not eliminate biofilm...of course stagnant water is more of an issue...
- smallnamespace 8y ago
  You probably don't want to know how we filter our water then [1]: "Slow sand filters work through the formation of a gelatinous layer (or biofilm) called the hypogeal layer or Schmutzdecke in the top few millimetres of the fine sand layer." Treating all bacteria as the enemy is really solving the wrong problem — the question is not how to kill all the bacteria (which is impossible, from almost thermodynamic considerations (if there is free energy and the ability for life colonize it, then there will be life)), but how to manage the bacteria so we favor nonpathogenic or useful species and help them outcompete the 'bad' bacteria. Incidentally, this is the same strategy our own bodies use—the immune system spends enormous amounts of effort discriminating between commensal/mutual and pathogenic species, and favoring the former as much trying to outright kill the latter. We need to pick the right analogies. How to herd, tame, and recruit allies, not just how to fight and kill. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_ope...
balls187 8y ago
However, washing in a water & bleach sanitizing solution will. You generally don't cook romaine lettuce prior to making a salad.
- adrianN 8y ago
  You wash your vegetables in bleach before eating them?!
  - betterbeehome 8y ago
    That's what I was thinking. Talk about taking away any benefits of eating salad... more bleach please?
    - betterbeehome 8y ago
      Downvoting me for this was stupid. You know know enough about food if you think bleaching is healthy. Apart of what makes salad healthy is the bacterial culture that's naturally on it. Think probiotics that are essential to maintaining proper digestion of the food you're eating. Seriously, get downvoted for anything.
      - balls187 8y ago
        I didn't downvote you, but if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food. Any cooking method that would kill ecoli will also destroy those helpful bacteria. Factory farms in the US wash their vegetables with chlorinated water.
        betterbeehome 8y ago
        "if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food." Learn about the gut micro-biome. The main reason salad is good for you it's effect on gut. We eat to feed the gut, not ourselves. To imply that prebiotics/probiotics aren't the main reason vegetables have a positive health effect on us is beyond ignorant. That's the reason why diabetes, cancer and heart disease is now worse than all the wars of history combined.

E coli don't rinse off; they form a biofilm with significant adhesion. You have to cook them to kill them.

by brians 8y ago

E coli don't rinse off; they form a biofilm with significant adhesion. You have to cook them to kill them.

Alupis 8y ago

You're right - I think it was more-or-less to prevent norovirus and other forms of food poisoning.

greglindahl 8y ago
Doesn't Norovirus mostly spread from people not washing their hands after they poop?

goldenkey 8y ago

Once I found out about biofilms from the cat fountain I built from NSF silver infused antimicrobial tubing, I never can look at plumbing piping the same. Biofilm formed even on the parts that should have been impervious. Even areas where water is constantly running and splashing. First the minerals deposit on the antimicrobial surfaces, and then the bacteria attach and film. I had always thought that constant high pressure water usage would flush whatever crap is in a pipe. Preventing any real contamination. Well...a quick google search shows that biofilm on residential water pipes is a huge problem. High pressure activity does not eliminate biofilm...of course stagnant water is more of an issue...

smallnamespace 8y ago
You probably don't want to know how we filter our water then [1]: "Slow sand filters work through the formation of a gelatinous layer (or biofilm) called the hypogeal layer or Schmutzdecke in the top few millimetres of the fine sand layer." Treating all bacteria as the enemy is really solving the wrong problem — the question is not how to kill all the bacteria (which is impossible, from almost thermodynamic considerations (if there is free energy and the ability for life colonize it, then there will be life)), but how to manage the bacteria so we favor nonpathogenic or useful species and help them outcompete the 'bad' bacteria. Incidentally, this is the same strategy our own bodies use—the immune system spends enormous amounts of effort discriminating between commensal/mutual and pathogenic species, and favoring the former as much trying to outright kill the latter. We need to pick the right analogies. How to herd, tame, and recruit allies, not just how to fight and kill. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_ope...

balls187 8y ago

However, washing in a water & bleach sanitizing solution will. You generally don't cook romaine lettuce prior to making a salad.

adrianN 8y ago
You wash your vegetables in bleach before eating them?!
- betterbeehome 8y ago
  That's what I was thinking. Talk about taking away any benefits of eating salad... more bleach please?
  - betterbeehome 8y ago
    Downvoting me for this was stupid. You know know enough about food if you think bleaching is healthy. Apart of what makes salad healthy is the bacterial culture that's naturally on it. Think probiotics that are essential to maintaining proper digestion of the food you're eating. Seriously, get downvoted for anything.
    - balls187 8y ago
      I didn't downvote you, but if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food. Any cooking method that would kill ecoli will also destroy those helpful bacteria. Factory farms in the US wash their vegetables with chlorinated water.
      - betterbeehome 8y ago
        "if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food." Learn about the gut micro-biome. The main reason salad is good for you it's effect on gut. We eat to feed the gut, not ourselves. To imply that prebiotics/probiotics aren't the main reason vegetables have a positive health effect on us is beyond ignorant. That's the reason why diabetes, cancer and heart disease is now worse than all the wars of history combined.