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>Instead of shipping heads of lettuce or large carrot sticks that people wash, we chop them and mix them up in processing, then package them in plastic bags. In

>Instead of shipping heads of lettuce or large carrot sticks that people wash, we chop them and mix them up in processing, then package them in plastic bags. In that process, Marler said, “The bacteria has a chance to grow. And a lot of people get sick.” This confirms what I had always been suspicious of. Those prepackaged veggies sitting in plastic bags are just a few degrees of temperature away from being perfect bacterial breeding grounds. Don't ever buy that crap.

Alupis 9y ago
Or... rinse it before you eat it. Just because it's already chopped and in a bag doesn't mean it suddenly doesn't need rinsing. If I recall, not rinsing pre-chopped lettuce was one of the things pointed out to Chipotle after their recent debacle, that may have helped avoid making customers sick.
- brians 9y ago
  E coli don't rinse off; they form a biofilm with significant adhesion. You have to cook them to kill them.
  - Alupis 9y ago
    You're right - I think it was more-or-less to prevent norovirus and other forms of food poisoning.
    - greglindahl 9y ago
      Doesn't Norovirus mostly spread from people not washing their hands after they poop?
  - goldenkey 9y ago
    Once I found out about biofilms from the cat fountain I built from NSF silver infused antimicrobial tubing, I never can look at plumbing piping the same. Biofilm formed even on the parts that should have been impervious. Even areas where water is constantly running and splashing. First the minerals deposit on the antimicrobial surfaces, and then the bacteria attach and film. I had always thought that constant high pressure water usage would flush whatever crap is in a pipe. Preventing any real contamination. Well...a quick google search shows that biofilm on residential water pipes is a huge problem. High pressure activity does not eliminate biofilm...of course stagnant water is more of an issue...
    - smallnamespace 9y ago
      You probably don't want to know how we filter our water then [1]: "Slow sand filters work through the formation of a gelatinous layer (or biofilm) called the hypogeal layer or Schmutzdecke in the top few millimetres of the fine sand layer." Treating all bacteria as the enemy is really solving the wrong problem — the question is not how to kill all the bacteria (which is impossible, from almost thermodynamic considerations (if there is free energy and the ability for life colonize it, then there will be life)), but how to manage the bacteria so we favor nonpathogenic or useful species and help them outcompete the 'bad' bacteria. Incidentally, this is the same strategy our own bodies use—the immune system spends enormous amounts of effort discriminating between commensal/mutual and pathogenic species, and favoring the former as much trying to outright kill the latter. We need to pick the right analogies. How to herd, tame, and recruit allies, not just how to fight and kill. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_ope...
  - balls187 9y ago
    However, washing in a water & bleach sanitizing solution will. You generally don't cook romaine lettuce prior to making a salad.
    - adrianN 9y ago
      You wash your vegetables in bleach before eating them?!
      - betterbeehome 9y ago
        That's what I was thinking. Talk about taking away any benefits of eating salad... more bleach please?
        betterbeehome 9y ago
        Downvoting me for this was stupid. You know know enough about food if you think bleaching is healthy. Apart of what makes salad healthy is the bacterial culture that's naturally on it. Think probiotics that are essential to maintaining proper digestion of the food you're eating. Seriously, get downvoted for anything.
        balls187 9y ago
        I didn't downvote you, but if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food. Any cooking method that would kill ecoli will also destroy those helpful bacteria. Factory farms in the US wash their vegetables with chlorinated water.
        betterbeehome 9y ago
        "if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food." Learn about the gut micro-biome. The main reason salad is good for you it's effect on gut. We eat to feed the gut, not ourselves. To imply that prebiotics/probiotics aren't the main reason vegetables have a positive health effect on us is beyond ignorant. That's the reason why diabetes, cancer and heart disease is now worse than all the wars of history combined.
- pera 9y ago
  Yet most of these products have a label that explicitly says "Ready to eat!".
  - paulclinger 9y ago
    It likely means they don't need to be cooked and not that they don't need to be washed. We don't wash strawberries we pick, but we wash those that we buy (even if they are ready to eat).
    - buckminster 9y ago
      No, it explicitly means you can eat it straight from the bag. If you're going to wash it anyway you may as well buy cheaper, safer unbagged veg. Of course, it is intended to mislead. People see "triple washed", the bag is sealed, they think they are getting convenience and safety, but they are not.
    - Johnny555 9y ago
      I looked at a bag I have at home -- it says "Thoroughly washed - Ready to eat". That doesn't sound like something I need to wash before I eat it. It's not even clear that "washing" (i.e. rinsing) would wash of a significant growth of harmful bacteria.
- SubiculumCode 9y ago
  I think its more that while it is being chopped, its tumbles with a whole lot of unaffected lettuce,
HarryHirsch 9y ago
The bagged stuff is packed under inert gas to prevent spoilage. The human nose is exquisitely tuned to detect "off" flavours under ordinary circumstances, but the bacteria that thrive in a nitrogen atmosphere are different, and you can catch food poisoning without noticing that the food had gone off.

Alupis 9y ago

Or... rinse it before you eat it. Just because it's already chopped and in a bag doesn't mean it suddenly doesn't need rinsing. If I recall, not rinsing pre-chopped lettuce was one of the things pointed out to Chipotle after their recent debacle, that may have helped avoid making customers sick.

brians 9y ago
E coli don't rinse off; they form a biofilm with significant adhesion. You have to cook them to kill them.
- Alupis 9y ago
  You're right - I think it was more-or-less to prevent norovirus and other forms of food poisoning.
  - greglindahl 9y ago
    Doesn't Norovirus mostly spread from people not washing their hands after they poop?
- goldenkey 9y ago
  Once I found out about biofilms from the cat fountain I built from NSF silver infused antimicrobial tubing, I never can look at plumbing piping the same. Biofilm formed even on the parts that should have been impervious. Even areas where water is constantly running and splashing. First the minerals deposit on the antimicrobial surfaces, and then the bacteria attach and film. I had always thought that constant high pressure water usage would flush whatever crap is in a pipe. Preventing any real contamination. Well...a quick google search shows that biofilm on residential water pipes is a huge problem. High pressure activity does not eliminate biofilm...of course stagnant water is more of an issue...
  - smallnamespace 9y ago
    You probably don't want to know how we filter our water then [1]: "Slow sand filters work through the formation of a gelatinous layer (or biofilm) called the hypogeal layer or Schmutzdecke in the top few millimetres of the fine sand layer." Treating all bacteria as the enemy is really solving the wrong problem — the question is not how to kill all the bacteria (which is impossible, from almost thermodynamic considerations (if there is free energy and the ability for life colonize it, then there will be life)), but how to manage the bacteria so we favor nonpathogenic or useful species and help them outcompete the 'bad' bacteria. Incidentally, this is the same strategy our own bodies use—the immune system spends enormous amounts of effort discriminating between commensal/mutual and pathogenic species, and favoring the former as much trying to outright kill the latter. We need to pick the right analogies. How to herd, tame, and recruit allies, not just how to fight and kill. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_operation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slow_sand_filter#Method_of_ope...
- balls187 9y ago
  However, washing in a water & bleach sanitizing solution will. You generally don't cook romaine lettuce prior to making a salad.
  - adrianN 9y ago
    You wash your vegetables in bleach before eating them?!
    - betterbeehome 9y ago
      That's what I was thinking. Talk about taking away any benefits of eating salad... more bleach please?
      - betterbeehome 9y ago
        Downvoting me for this was stupid. You know know enough about food if you think bleaching is healthy. Apart of what makes salad healthy is the bacterial culture that's naturally on it. Think probiotics that are essential to maintaining proper digestion of the food you're eating. Seriously, get downvoted for anything.
        balls187 9y ago
        I didn't downvote you, but if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food. Any cooking method that would kill ecoli will also destroy those helpful bacteria. Factory farms in the US wash their vegetables with chlorinated water.
        betterbeehome 9y ago
        "if you think the only thing that makes salad healthy are it's probiotics then you also don't know enough about food." Learn about the gut micro-biome. The main reason salad is good for you it's effect on gut. We eat to feed the gut, not ourselves. To imply that prebiotics/probiotics aren't the main reason vegetables have a positive health effect on us is beyond ignorant. That's the reason why diabetes, cancer and heart disease is now worse than all the wars of history combined.
pera 9y ago
Yet most of these products have a label that explicitly says "Ready to eat!".
- paulclinger 9y ago
  It likely means they don't need to be cooked and not that they don't need to be washed. We don't wash strawberries we pick, but we wash those that we buy (even if they are ready to eat).
  - buckminster 9y ago
    No, it explicitly means you can eat it straight from the bag. If you're going to wash it anyway you may as well buy cheaper, safer unbagged veg. Of course, it is intended to mislead. People see "triple washed", the bag is sealed, they think they are getting convenience and safety, but they are not.
  - Johnny555 9y ago
    I looked at a bag I have at home -- it says "Thoroughly washed - Ready to eat". That doesn't sound like something I need to wash before I eat it. It's not even clear that "washing" (i.e. rinsing) would wash of a significant growth of harmful bacteria.
SubiculumCode 9y ago
I think its more that while it is being chopped, its tumbles with a whole lot of unaffected lettuce,

HarryHirsch 9y ago

The bagged stuff is packed under inert gas to prevent spoilage. The human nose is exquisitely tuned to detect "off" flavours under ordinary circumstances, but the bacteria that thrive in a nitrogen atmosphere are different, and you can catch food poisoning without noticing that the food had gone off.