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The interesting realisation for me about Walter White came when I started watching the season through for a second time. But first... SPOILER ALERT! I mean th

The interesting realisation for me about Walter White came when I started watching the season through for a second time. But first... SPOILER ALERT! I mean the first time around I had some sympathy for the guy - he was a disappointed and somewhat embittered middle aged man still trying to do his best to support his family, and then he's given this crappy cancer diagnosis. I felt bad for him. Fair to say that by the time he just lets Jesse's girlfriend, Jane, choke to death on her own vomit whilst unconscious I'd entirely lost that and felt nothing but loathing for the character (which isn't to say I didn't enjoy the show, or think he was a great character). But what I realised on revisiting the show a couple of years later is that Walter White didn't break bad. He was bad from the very beginning. I mean look at the way he interacts with people in the early episodes of season 1: he's largely an asshole. The only thing that changes is that, initially because he's driven to, he becomes much more comfortable with manifesting his assholery overtly.

lkrubner 8y ago
I think that's right. I recently heard someone argue "Power doesn't corrupt, but rather it reveals who you really are." I think that applies to Walter White. He was morally corrupt from the start, but that became more obvious as he gained money/power.
- at-fates-hands 8y ago
  I think it was Michael Irvin who said something similar when he was talking about how people say, "Money CAN buy you happiness." He said no, it just makes you more of what you already are. If you're a huge asshole before you got rich, now you're just a rich asshole. If you're an empathetic, kind person, before you got rich, now you're just a rich, kind person. He also lamented society benefits more from the latter than the former for obvious reasons.
jstarfish 8y ago
> Fair to say that by the time he just lets Jesse's girlfriend, Jane, choke to death on her own vomit whilst unconscious I'd entirely lost that and felt nothing but loathing for the character > But what I realised on revisiting the show a couple of years later is that Walter White didn't break bad. He was bad from the very beginning. Jesse's girlfriend got him hooked on heroin. Jesse was on a downward spiral and would surely die thanks to her continued interference. Walter saw the toxicity of both the drugs and the relationship and did Jesse a cruel but necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose (even if it was so Walter wouldn't be without an assistant). He did far worse deeds for less grounded reasons as the series went on; there are better examples to choose from to make a case of villainy. If anything, what changes through the series is his disconnectedness from everything he was fighting for. As he lost his son's respect, his wife, his family, and his friend, his world became significantly more introverted and he was willing to tolerate greater and greater amounts of collateral damage in the interest of his own survival (since he had nothing left to care about but himself until the ending).
- trhway 8y ago
  >necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose that is exactly the issue - for him ends justify the means. That is his main, core, villainy. >what changes through the series is his disconnectedness from everything he was fighting for. natural result as evil means hollow out whatever ends he wanted to reach.
- this2shallPass 8y ago
  SPOILERS It's a great show, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. > Jesse's girlfriend got him hooked on heroin. Jesse was on a downward spiral and would surely die thanks to her continued interference. Jesse was on a downward spiral, yes, but the other two points are less clear. They might be true from Walt's perspective. > Walter saw the toxicity of both the drugs and the relationship and did Jesse a cruel but necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose (even if it was so Walter wouldn't be without an assistant). It's impossible to tell how much Walt's letting Jane die / killing Jane had to do with helping Jesse. I think it's clearer Walt killed Jane to keep control over Jesse and to protect himself. And that worked out pretty well, for a while. Jane didn't fear Walt, and she knew too much about him for Walt's comfort and safety. So he let her die / killed her. > He did far worse deeds for less grounded reasons as the series went on; there are better examples to choose from to make a case of villainy. This is true. For me, Jane's death caused a major nosedive in sympathy for Walt. Definitely previous things he did were villainous and later things even more so. But there was something about Jane's death. A big step down in his descent.
upvotinglurker 8y ago
Very much. I watched the show for the first time by "binging" the first four seasons, just ahead of the season 5 premiere, so I went in already having heard all the buzz about the showing being "Mr. Chips to Scarface." By episode 2 or 3 I was already thinking he was always Scarface.

lkrubner 8y ago

I think that's right. I recently heard someone argue "Power doesn't corrupt, but rather it reveals who you really are." I think that applies to Walter White. He was morally corrupt from the start, but that became more obvious as he gained money/power.

at-fates-hands 8y ago
I think it was Michael Irvin who said something similar when he was talking about how people say, "Money CAN buy you happiness." He said no, it just makes you more of what you already are. If you're a huge asshole before you got rich, now you're just a rich asshole. If you're an empathetic, kind person, before you got rich, now you're just a rich, kind person. He also lamented society benefits more from the latter than the former for obvious reasons.

jstarfish 8y ago

> Fair to say that by the time he just lets Jesse's girlfriend, Jane, choke to death on her own vomit whilst unconscious I'd entirely lost that and felt nothing but loathing for the character > But what I realised on revisiting the show a couple of years later is that Walter White didn't break bad. He was bad from the very beginning. Jesse's girlfriend got him hooked on heroin. Jesse was on a downward spiral and would surely die thanks to her continued interference. Walter saw the toxicity of both the drugs and the relationship and did Jesse a cruel but necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose (even if it was so Walter wouldn't be without an assistant). He did far worse deeds for less grounded reasons as the series went on; there are better examples to choose from to make a case of villainy. If anything, what changes through the series is his disconnectedness from everything he was fighting for. As he lost his son's respect, his wife, his family, and his friend, his world became significantly more introverted and he was willing to tolerate greater and greater amounts of collateral damage in the interest of his own survival (since he had nothing left to care about but himself until the ending).

trhway 8y ago
>necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose that is exactly the issue - for him ends justify the means. That is his main, core, villainy. >what changes through the series is his disconnectedness from everything he was fighting for. natural result as evil means hollow out whatever ends he wanted to reach.
this2shallPass 8y ago
SPOILERS It's a great show, and I agree with a lot of what you're saying. > Jesse's girlfriend got him hooked on heroin. Jesse was on a downward spiral and would surely die thanks to her continued interference. Jesse was on a downward spiral, yes, but the other two points are less clear. They might be true from Walt's perspective. > Walter saw the toxicity of both the drugs and the relationship and did Jesse a cruel but necessary kindness by letting her asphyxiate. It wasn't ethical, it wasn't humane, but it served a greater purpose (even if it was so Walter wouldn't be without an assistant). It's impossible to tell how much Walt's letting Jane die / killing Jane had to do with helping Jesse. I think it's clearer Walt killed Jane to keep control over Jesse and to protect himself. And that worked out pretty well, for a while. Jane didn't fear Walt, and she knew too much about him for Walt's comfort and safety. So he let her die / killed her. > He did far worse deeds for less grounded reasons as the series went on; there are better examples to choose from to make a case of villainy. This is true. For me, Jane's death caused a major nosedive in sympathy for Walt. Definitely previous things he did were villainous and later things even more so. But there was something about Jane's death. A big step down in his descent.

upvotinglurker 8y ago

Very much. I watched the show for the first time by "binging" the first four seasons, just ahead of the season 5 premiere, so I went in already having heard all the buzz about the showing being "Mr. Chips to Scarface." By episode 2 or 3 I was already thinking he was always Scarface.