5 ms·

I’ve read thru a bunch of the comments (many of which echo my own thoughts on my career), and have a thought: Why is computer programming taught in universitie

by MR4D 9y ago

I’ve read thru a bunch of the comments (many of which echo my own thoughts on my career), and have a thought: Why is computer programming taught in universities? Seriously. There are many people who learned some things but not what they would have wanted to learn when they look back on their life. I wonder why programming can’t be like welding [1]. There are many different types of welders, from the person welding a spacecraft, to your backyard bbq. And everything in between. Welding stainless steel is totally different from welding aluminum. And welding on alloys is like it’s from a different planet. The welding field has many certifications for different things. We depend on their work every day. Yet they don’t go to college. And their mistakes can kill people. Programmers on the other hand, should be able to have cerifications on things like data structures, communication methods, data stores & indexing, UX, etc. That would be a much better use of people’s time than what we’ve been doing. [1] https://www.aws.org/certification/page/certified-welder-program https://www.aws.org/certification/page/certified-welder-prog... (EDIT): yes, I read the article, but my post is more targeted at the HN comments. For what it’s worth, the article didn’t reference overly-worked blue collar fields like welding, hence why I used it as an example.

bluejekyll 9y ago
Programmers are not just welders, or should not be equated to welders. Welders have a blueprint, generally, to work from. There is someone who’s had to design how to form the thing being welded. Software engineers are constantly asked to design and build the things they work on. It’s not a straightforward process of sticking two things together, based on some predefined blueprint. We make the blueprints while we code. On top of that, systems as they come together sometimes show problems that need fixes, because of the scale of the system. Then we need to completely redesign for the newer bigger problem. Using the welding analogue, sometimes you start building a BBQ, and end up making a bicycle or a rocketship.
- MR4D 9y ago
  Good clarification. Programmers are like welders. Architects aren’t. They may be welders or programmers, but they lay out the structure and define how it connects to the world. Programming is different (way different) than architecture. In my mind, and part of the reason for the post is that we are expecting programmers to be architects. We shouldn’t. It’s a different discipline.
  - karlta05 9y ago
    I really agree with your point on certifications. We are similar to welders in my mind as well. In my country, our software industry holds certifications higher that degrees. Certifications require to be updated and redone every so often. Even though a degree will teach you fundamentals, I do believe you will learn those in the job and with the certification but a certification really is that.... its to certify that you are adequate in a certain technology. All of my job interviews have required me to show them my abilities with whatever tech they require. Another point I would like to make is that I work with people with degrees and I have certifications. Their degrees are more than 10 - 20 years for some. How much has technology changed in that time? I have to keep redoing my certification every 2 years (microsoft for example). And to me 2 years is a long time in the software industry.

by MR4D 9y ago

bluejekyll 9y ago

Programmers are not just welders, or should not be equated to welders. Welders have a blueprint, generally, to work from. There is someone who’s had to design how to form the thing being welded. Software engineers are constantly asked to design and build the things they work on. It’s not a straightforward process of sticking two things together, based on some predefined blueprint. We make the blueprints while we code. On top of that, systems as they come together sometimes show problems that need fixes, because of the scale of the system. Then we need to completely redesign for the newer bigger problem. Using the welding analogue, sometimes you start building a BBQ, and end up making a bicycle or a rocketship.

MR4D 9y ago
Good clarification. Programmers are like welders. Architects aren’t. They may be welders or programmers, but they lay out the structure and define how it connects to the world. Programming is different (way different) than architecture. In my mind, and part of the reason for the post is that we are expecting programmers to be architects. We shouldn’t. It’s a different discipline.
- karlta05 9y ago
  I really agree with your point on certifications. We are similar to welders in my mind as well. In my country, our software industry holds certifications higher that degrees. Certifications require to be updated and redone every so often. Even though a degree will teach you fundamentals, I do believe you will learn those in the job and with the certification but a certification really is that.... its to certify that you are adequate in a certain technology. All of my job interviews have required me to show them my abilities with whatever tech they require. Another point I would like to make is that I work with people with degrees and I have certifications. Their degrees are more than 10 - 20 years for some. How much has technology changed in that time? I have to keep redoing my certification every 2 years (microsoft for example). And to me 2 years is a long time in the software industry.