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The west coast bias in Hacker News is always shocking. The capital markets exist for a reason, and the people he's mocking on this conference call are the ones

by xkjkls 9y ago

The west coast bias in Hacker News is always shocking. The capital markets exist for a reason, and the people he's mocking on this conference call are the ones that he's going to need to be begging for billions if things don't deliver in Q3 or Q4.

dsfyu404ed 9y ago
It shoudn't shock you. It should be expected based on the demographics of the people who read HN.
- xkjkls 9y ago
  Goldman Sachs has more developers than Facebook. It's not like Wall Street isn't filled with software people.
  - sotojuan 9y ago
    Those people don't go on HN. This is a forum mostly comprised of college students, web developers with <5 years experience, Silicon Valley startup/tech company developers, and a few experts that have stuck around.
    - xkjkls 9y ago
      Hacker News has been a repository of software/tech news long enough that I would bet the audience is more diverse than you think.
kalms 9y ago
Maybe he knows something you don’t.
praneshp 9y ago
Whenever I see a ridiculous reaction on HN (like on the Signal/AWS article a few days ago), I just wait and watch how the same folks bend over backwards to defend Musk.
kneel 9y ago
If the price drops and someone else thinks its undervalued they'll buy it. Elon doesn't have to brown nose to Wall St. bigwigs for that to happen.
- xkjkls 9y ago
  I don't think "answering basic questions about the financial health of your company" really should be considered "brown nosing", but to each their own. And it's not that simple that he can just raise debt or equity if Tesla's stock starts tanking. There aren't billions of dollars out there to be invested or loaned to money losing companies whose stock price is tanking. If come Q4 Tesla is having to raise money at a lower valuation, it becomes even more difficult to see the path to success.
  - kneel 9y ago
    >I don't think "answering basic questions about the financial health of your company" really should be considered "brown nosing", but to each their own. Tesla has been thoroughly analyzed every which way, moreso than other companies. Really there is no end to the amount of info that Wall St wants, everyone is trying to make a buck and wall st senses the hype. >There aren't billions of dollars out there to be invested or loaned to money losing companies whose stock price is tanking. Tesla is public. Yes there is. Just depends on whether you can stomach the risk.
    - xkjkls 9y ago
      Tesla’s reporting leaves a lot to be desired. Why wouldn’t Musk release a detailed plan of what is going to materially change in their production goals and capital expenditures over the next sixth months in order to finance their debt? Explain the process for how the make their projections and pronouncements? Explain why it is prudent to invest in multiple new models and production lines when his company is burning through $4 billion a year and can’t meet current production targets? Why doesn’t he explain how many of the 500,000 Model 3 deposits remain, given that at current production rates that will take almost a decade to meet? Why doesn’t he provide monthly sales figures like every other automaker? > Tesla is public. Yes there is. Just depends on whether you can stomach the risk. You understand that greater risk necessitate the possibility of greater return, right? What interest rate is it going to have to be paying on debt it raises? TSLA bonds are already at 8% interest, in junk bond territory. If financials deteriorate further is he paying 10%? 12%? In that situation how much of Tesla’s revenue is just going to be eaten up paying interest on the $10 billion in debt it currently has, plus an additional capital raise? That makes the cash flow issues even worse. If Tesla raises equity, how much of a hair cut does the enterprise value take? With the amount of debt it currently has, it doesn’t take much before you start thinking insolvency.
peoplewindow 9y ago
I realise we're not meant to meta-discuss here, but that post you're replying to was flagged and dead, and I vouched for it. For what it's worth, I agree that the post was ridiculous - Musk's behaviour is dumb and with every week that goes by I expect reality to catch up with him more and more. But I don't think the HN community should be flagging and killing posts for being naive and un-business-like. I struggle to identify what rule was broken there, and (supposedly) west coast "money is free" bias is not a good reason to suppress someone's post from being visible.

by xkjkls 9y ago

dsfyu404ed 9y ago

It shoudn't shock you. It should be expected based on the demographics of the people who read HN.

xkjkls 9y ago
Goldman Sachs has more developers than Facebook. It's not like Wall Street isn't filled with software people.
- sotojuan 9y ago
  Those people don't go on HN. This is a forum mostly comprised of college students, web developers with <5 years experience, Silicon Valley startup/tech company developers, and a few experts that have stuck around.
  - xkjkls 9y ago
    Hacker News has been a repository of software/tech news long enough that I would bet the audience is more diverse than you think.

kalms 9y ago

Maybe he knows something you don’t.

praneshp 9y ago

Whenever I see a ridiculous reaction on HN (like on the Signal/AWS article a few days ago), I just wait and watch how the same folks bend over backwards to defend Musk.

kneel 9y ago

If the price drops and someone else thinks its undervalued they'll buy it. Elon doesn't have to brown nose to Wall St. bigwigs for that to happen.

xkjkls 9y ago
I don't think "answering basic questions about the financial health of your company" really should be considered "brown nosing", but to each their own. And it's not that simple that he can just raise debt or equity if Tesla's stock starts tanking. There aren't billions of dollars out there to be invested or loaned to money losing companies whose stock price is tanking. If come Q4 Tesla is having to raise money at a lower valuation, it becomes even more difficult to see the path to success.
- kneel 9y ago
  >I don't think "answering basic questions about the financial health of your company" really should be considered "brown nosing", but to each their own. Tesla has been thoroughly analyzed every which way, moreso than other companies. Really there is no end to the amount of info that Wall St wants, everyone is trying to make a buck and wall st senses the hype. >There aren't billions of dollars out there to be invested or loaned to money losing companies whose stock price is tanking. Tesla is public. Yes there is. Just depends on whether you can stomach the risk.
  - xkjkls 9y ago
    Tesla’s reporting leaves a lot to be desired. Why wouldn’t Musk release a detailed plan of what is going to materially change in their production goals and capital expenditures over the next sixth months in order to finance their debt? Explain the process for how the make their projections and pronouncements? Explain why it is prudent to invest in multiple new models and production lines when his company is burning through $4 billion a year and can’t meet current production targets? Why doesn’t he explain how many of the 500,000 Model 3 deposits remain, given that at current production rates that will take almost a decade to meet? Why doesn’t he provide monthly sales figures like every other automaker? > Tesla is public. Yes there is. Just depends on whether you can stomach the risk. You understand that greater risk necessitate the possibility of greater return, right? What interest rate is it going to have to be paying on debt it raises? TSLA bonds are already at 8% interest, in junk bond territory. If financials deteriorate further is he paying 10%? 12%? In that situation how much of Tesla’s revenue is just going to be eaten up paying interest on the $10 billion in debt it currently has, plus an additional capital raise? That makes the cash flow issues even worse. If Tesla raises equity, how much of a hair cut does the enterprise value take? With the amount of debt it currently has, it doesn’t take much before you start thinking insolvency.

peoplewindow 9y ago

I realise we're not meant to meta-discuss here, but that post you're replying to was flagged and dead, and I vouched for it. For what it's worth, I agree that the post was ridiculous - Musk's behaviour is dumb and with every week that goes by I expect reality to catch up with him more and more. But I don't think the HN community should be flagging and killing posts for being naive and un-business-like. I struggle to identify what rule was broken there, and (supposedly) west coast "money is free" bias is not a good reason to suppress someone's post from being visible.