4 ms·

Tesla is clearly flying close to the sun, and Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride;

by ttul 9y ago

Tesla is clearly flying close to the sun, and Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride; however, it probably would have been more prudent to hold back on that pronouncement, given that many investors seem to have taken the hint and exited the stock... Tesla is a giant confidence game - as are most high growth opportunities.

deleted 9y ago
[deleted]
JumpCrisscross 9y ago
> Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride Risk is fine. Blind risk is not. Questions about cash position for a money-losing company with less cash on hand than it burned in the trailing 12 months are prudent.
- pooya13 9y ago
  All the capex info was in their letter and they talked about it in the call as well. Why should all the investors have to listen to them repeat themselves? I for one appreciated that he skipped the question and did not waste my time. Also the reservation holder conversion rate is a highly strategic information and I don't think they should release that to the public. And to be honest it is irrelevant while they have such a giant backlog of orders. my guess is that the intent was to gather material for negative press. Let's not kid ourselves. Tesla has been the target of a massive propoganda/trolling campaign recently. (HN included)
  - shanghaiaway 9y ago
    Who do you imagine being behind your imagined propaganda campaign?
    - pooya13 9y ago
      Do I need to know who is behind it before I can tell that it is happening? When every negative event is blown out of proportions and the positive ones are not mentioned it appears that there is propaganda at work. But if I wanted to look I would start here: https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-propaganda-campaign-against-tesla-spacex/ https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-pr...
    - marvin 9y ago
      Context notwithstanding; as a long-term Tesla shareholder I am a bit skeptical towards the Musk’s behavior on this call. (Haven’t heard it myself yet). That said, Tesla currently has 38 out of 170 million total shares sold short. So there is a strong economic interest in the company failing.
debt 9y ago
"Tesla is clearly flying close to the sun" If by "flying close to it" you mean flailing end over end into it then yes.
philwelch 9y ago
> Tesla is a giant confidence game - as are most high growth opportunities. Do you literally mean that Tesla is a scam? (That’s the normal meaning of “confidence game”, i.e. “con game”).
- garmaine 9y ago
  The difference is intent. A con is a confidence play with the intent to deceive. Elon’s MO is a confidence play with intent to succeed — the confidence motivates success of the organization (at great labor cost) that would otherwise be unobtainable.
  - philwelch 9y ago
    That’s not the standard etymology, is it? I always thought that a con game was called a “confidence game” because the perpetrator is gaining the “confidence” of the mark.
    - mikeash 9y ago
      Yes, exactly. These are all synonyms. People use “con” instead of “confidence game” just to save skme syllables, not to impart a different meaning.
      - philwelch 9y ago
        Although abbreviations, as Orwell pointed out, do tend to assume their own connotations—e.g. “Comintern” vs. “Communist International”, or more blatantly, “Nazi” vs. “National Socialist”.
  - ttul 9y ago
    This is a fair comment.
greglindahl 9y ago
Elon says things like that every quarter.
this_user 9y ago
I read through the transcript of the call [1], and it was not as bad as the headlines make it out to be. But unless they start delivering larger numbers of Model 3s, they will have to raise additional capital later this year or face running out of money. Tesla is still basically a startup and they were hours away from bankruptcy once before in 2008, so this is not entirely impossible. Musk claims they will be cash flow positive in Q3, but so far they have missed Model 3 production targets for the last three quarters, although they got close at the end of Q1. Under these circumstances, it is not unreasonable for investors to hold you accountable and inquire about the financial situation and plans. Musk's conduct was unprofessional and he could have handled those questions more gracefully instead of dismissing them and berating the people who had been asking them. This kind of behaviour does not exactly inspire confidence, and burning your bridges with the very banks that you might need to raise money later on was certainly not his smartest move. [1] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-results-earnings-call-transcript https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-...
qaq 9y ago
If memory serves it's not his first remarks of this nature. I see my TSLA stock as a way to contribute to the version of the future I want to live in and not a ROI driven investment.

by ttul 9y ago

deleted 9y ago

[deleted]

JumpCrisscross 9y ago

> Musk is not incorrect to suggest that investors who can't take that kind of risk should not be along for the ride Risk is fine. Blind risk is not. Questions about cash position for a money-losing company with less cash on hand than it burned in the trailing 12 months are prudent.

pooya13 9y ago
All the capex info was in their letter and they talked about it in the call as well. Why should all the investors have to listen to them repeat themselves? I for one appreciated that he skipped the question and did not waste my time. Also the reservation holder conversion rate is a highly strategic information and I don't think they should release that to the public. And to be honest it is irrelevant while they have such a giant backlog of orders. my guess is that the intent was to gather material for negative press. Let's not kid ourselves. Tesla has been the target of a massive propoganda/trolling campaign recently. (HN included)
- shanghaiaway 9y ago
  Who do you imagine being behind your imagined propaganda campaign?
  - pooya13 9y ago
    Do I need to know who is behind it before I can tell that it is happening? When every negative event is blown out of proportions and the positive ones are not mentioned it appears that there is propaganda at work. But if I wanted to look I would start here: https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-propaganda-campaign-against-tesla-spacex/ https://electrek.co/2016/11/22/elon-musk-right-wing-trump-pr...
  - marvin 9y ago
    Context notwithstanding; as a long-term Tesla shareholder I am a bit skeptical towards the Musk’s behavior on this call. (Haven’t heard it myself yet). That said, Tesla currently has 38 out of 170 million total shares sold short. So there is a strong economic interest in the company failing.

debt 9y ago

"Tesla is clearly flying close to the sun" If by "flying close to it" you mean flailing end over end into it then yes.

philwelch 9y ago

> Tesla is a giant confidence game - as are most high growth opportunities. Do you literally mean that Tesla is a scam? (That’s the normal meaning of “confidence game”, i.e. “con game”).

garmaine 9y ago
The difference is intent. A con is a confidence play with the intent to deceive. Elon’s MO is a confidence play with intent to succeed — the confidence motivates success of the organization (at great labor cost) that would otherwise be unobtainable.
- philwelch 9y ago
  That’s not the standard etymology, is it? I always thought that a con game was called a “confidence game” because the perpetrator is gaining the “confidence” of the mark.
  - mikeash 9y ago
    Yes, exactly. These are all synonyms. People use “con” instead of “confidence game” just to save skme syllables, not to impart a different meaning.
    - philwelch 9y ago
      Although abbreviations, as Orwell pointed out, do tend to assume their own connotations—e.g. “Comintern” vs. “Communist International”, or more blatantly, “Nazi” vs. “National Socialist”.
- ttul 9y ago
  This is a fair comment.

greglindahl 9y ago

Elon says things like that every quarter.

this_user 9y ago

I read through the transcript of the call [1], and it was not as bad as the headlines make it out to be. But unless they start delivering larger numbers of Model 3s, they will have to raise additional capital later this year or face running out of money. Tesla is still basically a startup and they were hours away from bankruptcy once before in 2008, so this is not entirely impossible. Musk claims they will be cash flow positive in Q3, but so far they have missed Model 3 production targets for the last three quarters, although they got close at the end of Q1. Under these circumstances, it is not unreasonable for investors to hold you accountable and inquire about the financial situation and plans. Musk's conduct was unprofessional and he could have handled those questions more gracefully instead of dismissing them and berating the people who had been asking them. This kind of behaviour does not exactly inspire confidence, and burning your bridges with the very banks that you might need to raise money later on was certainly not his smartest move. [1] https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-results-earnings-call-transcript https://seekingalpha.com/article/4169027-tesla-tsla-q1-2018-...

qaq 9y ago

If memory serves it's not his first remarks of this nature. I see my TSLA stock as a way to contribute to the version of the future I want to live in and not a ROI driven investment.